£4k Super-Integrated Valve Amps - Recommendations Please

Hi Guys,

Moving into a tiny flat soon and may need to downsize my sytem a little. I was wondering if any of you could recommend me a super-integrated around the £4k mark? I'll probably be buying used/ex-dem to maximise value, so potentially RRP of £6k? Don't mind something from the late nineties, if it's serviceable. It will ideally have the following characteristics:

1) A thoroughly designed pre-amp section. Ideally triode (but will consider passives), and with a high-quality resistor-based attentuator. No £2 ALPS blue pots please!
2) Remote control. This is pretty important.
3) Valve power output (ideally single-ended but will consider pentodes/push-pull). Class A transistor considered as a last resort.
4) Internal MC phono stage. Long shot this one I know, but must be of suitably high quality.

Not hugely concerned about aesthetics (however beasts like McIntosh & MF are out) or heat generation. Reliability & service back-up are important though.

Not really familiar with this end of the market and need some guidance. Power output not important as my speakers are quite sensitive, but 15wpc should be considered the floor here.

Off the top of my head, I've come up with some disparate (i.e. bad) examples to get us started. Not sure if all these brands have super-integrateds though:

Pathos TT-RR or INPOL 2
Sugden Masterclass
Audio Research (an old reference integrated or the newer VSi's perhaps?)
DK Designs Ref Mk3 (sounds great but it's a big ugly mother)
Lavardin IT 2K2
Jadis Reference / DA30
Hovland
Manley Labs
Graaf GM50
T+A V10
Unison S6/S8
EAR 899/861/V20
Cary CAD-300SEi
VTL
Emile KI 240

DT

And if anyone asks why I sold my Pathos Classic One MkII but two months ago, I'll shoot them. Bloody stupid of me

 

I Make a nice Valve amplifier.

Your more then welcome to have a listen.

 

Go for a Border Patrol in push-pull.

If you want to keep things compact, the hifi collective transformer based pre is really diddy and about £400.

I know it's not an integrated - but I'm talking quality over size.

Also consider the Berning integrated amp.

A pig to get hold of, second hand even harder.


Frankly, it doesnt get much better than that ^ ^ ^

 

I have back issues of several years of the following Hi-Fi magazines. Perhaps I might be able to assist you.
Hi-Fi World 1997- present(complete)
Hi-Fi Choice 1997 - present(complete)
Hi-Fi News - 1998 - 2006(almost complete)

PM me if so.

 

This is the berning:
http://www.davidberning.com/zh270.htm

If you need a powerful valve amp (its 80w), it's simply the best one I've heard.

Better than a £15,000 Mcintosh amp, better than a Canary 300B, better than a 600w digital studio amp, better than anything I've heard frankly.

When the time comes that I need it's power - I'm getting one.

From your list I've heard:

Pathos
Audio Research
Hovland
Graaf GM50
Unison
EAR
Cary CAD-300SEi

and it's certainly better than those.

All IN MY (in my opinion correct) view.

 

I think you should think Croft- ring up Eminent Audio and see what they can do - nice guys- GREAT PRODUCTS

 

Musical Fidelity Kw550, For All It's Worth, Nando.

 

i wouldn't part with any big cash before trying karan KA-I180 at home

the best integrated device i have ever heard (and i've heard some krells, macs, MF, pathos, sugden, accu, etc).

they controlled monster karan speakers consisting of JBL pro drivers (18", 10", mid and tweeter horn) like a peace of cake, producing a sound with immediacy and naturalness of SET/horns, yet having amazing slam and deepest bass control.

the only problem is you have to deal with audiofreaks i'm afraid.

 

btw what happens with your speakers if a tube suddenly blows in an OTL amp?

that's what i've always wondered ever since i've heard about futterman designs

 

Im not sufficiently au fait with the design to explain the protection thats in place.

Certainly there are the following re-assuring words in the description:

. "Should the ZH270 not be able to set the bias on all the tubes, one of several error-sensing circuits will place the power supply in a fold-back current-limiting mode in order to protect amplifier components from possible damage."

"The error sensing and protection circuits are not in the signal path. A momentary short circuit at the speaker terminals will not harm the ZH270 and will not activate any protection. The ZH270 can be operated without a load."

"Brown-out protection."

 

Interesting recomendations there. Bottleneck, the Berning apears to be a very leftfield suggestion (which is why it's always good to seek advice!) However, I'm not familiar with the design, nor have I ever seen one in the UK. Where on earth would I demo it?

Will see what Croft has, but I hear the build quality was iffy. Is this still the case?

Just remembered that it's the heathrow show in March. Might be a good idea to wait until then before deciding. Like I actually have that level of patience!

Nando, I'm dismissing MF purely on the basis that I hate the company. Anubis, the Karan could be the best amp in the world, but I refuse to deal with Audiofreaks (hence why CJ doesn't appear on my shortlist either).

DT

 

Hi DT

The Berning is extremely capable.

On here, Dev, Robbo, Sideshowbob (I think), SCIDB, myself and Merlin have all heard it. They may come in with their own opinions.

The only one I know is owned by a friend who lives near Slough. If you live near there I could ask if he would let you hear his.

If you can't get to hear one, your only option is to go for something more day-to-day, or take a risk.

It's quite reassuring however to know that new ones go for about £2,500, and used ones about £2,000.

Thats partly because they're so f*cking good, and partly because David Berning makes them when he feels like scratching his butt and doing some work.

Shame he's such a bloody genius.

 

On the off chance that you might consider a non valve amp then the Perreaux Radiance 200i would be my choice for best integrated around £4000.

 

On the contrary - i've used Croft for years and had no problems, it's very simply built, nothing to go wrong , plus the back up from Eminent has been superb for upgrades etc. They really are the biggest bargain in HIFI

 

Speak to Geoff at servicesound.com he has been repairing valve amps for years and can probably tell you which amps he gets in most for repair.

 

Why did you sell your Pathos Classic One, you should have kept that you know .... oops... BANG..

 

:gatling:

Sold for the paltry sum of £750 :banghead:

 

What about a second hand McIntosh MA2275? It probably meets all of your criteria and is certainly better than a lot of the amps on your list (I owned a T&A V10 and a Sugden Masterclass and it is much better than both of those). I have just managed to acquire a second hand one for less than your budget so they do exist.

Regards,

Mike

 

But God, they're just so fugly

Not exactly "bijou" either. I'm trying to downsize here, and the Mac is big on CC's.

DT

 

We should ban people with such poor taste.