2 TT's which?

got a choice between a gyrodek dc, or an origin live ultra, about the same price, which one? help...

 

Gyro. Though I've not got any evidence to hand, I've heard a few bad things about OL's quality control. Also, look at the two companies conceptions of a modified Rega. Michell have the Tecnoarm, a perfectly executed piece of design that's been very well thought out. OL have the modified RB250/300, with easy-to-manufacture but relatively poor sounding 3-piece wiring, and an aftermarket counterweight that's made to relatively poor tolerances (Rega's own was a fair bit better). I know who I'd choose.

 

Simon,

You are spot on with those comments sir. I can't help but feel that there is a lot of hype surrounding Origin Live, aided not just by some U.K. audiophiles but also by one of the leading U.K. hifi mags. Yet, real life accounts of the products from real people that have spent their own money give a different version of the products' performances vs the competition.

The vote for the Gyro is seconded. Michell is a top company making top quality products. All buyers have to do is just to make sure they get the 'bounce' right and they won't regret buying the Gyro (or Orbe).



Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.

 

well the ol rb 250 was better than that godawful 250 alone, but points noted, of course you are probably right.

go on, name the mag I know which you mean. I suspect the ed. is getting freebees.

 

As a Gyrodec user I'd say go for the OL....No No ididn't mean it. The Gyro dec is infinately upgradeable, psu platters the works. It will take the finest arms that you can get, and always sound really relaxed and confident. Also once set up it doesn't drift off like a lot of decks I can think of.

 

i have a gyro se and an o/l silver 250

without an arm the gyro se would cost you about £7-800. on build and materials alone it is plain to see that it outshines anything else at the price range it really is a substantial piece of well enginerred kit. most other suspended design T/T's have, in some way or another, ripped off the design and set up of the gyro.the manufacturer has a T/T pedigree. sound quality, with a half decent arm is miles ahead of it's price bracket. i have considered upgrading my deck, but only to the orbe. this is the only problem i see with the gyro. if you wish to upgrade to orbe status, you pretty much need to do it wholesale. otherwise you will spend £££s adding platters and psu's and when it comes to sell, you have a deck that noone recognises. believe me i know. if i knew then what i know now i would have got an orbe / se outright. there are dozens of retailers out there who will give you one 'ex dem' for around £1700. depending on how much you are paying for your deck this may eventually be the cost of the gyro and upgrades and therefore it makes sense to hang on for a couple of months. i really wish i had

as for the o/l silver 250? no complaints. in this case i think o/l were the pioneers and people like michell saw the market for budget hi-end arms open up and thought 'i;m having some of that action'. one worrying thing though. i have seen quite a few techno arms on ebay recently at around the £200 mark. so either the seller does'nt know whats good for him or they simply did'nt get on with sound

minefield - tread carefully

 

Lt Cdr Data,

That's a very simple request - the mag in question is non other than Hifi World. People accuse HiFi+ of being sponsored by Nordost and if that's the case then HiFi World is being sponsored by Origin Live given the way they lay down the red-carpet to all Origin Live products. I don't regularly buy hifi magazines but in one recent edition of HiFi World that I picked up at the airport, the magazine was advising someone looking to upgrade from the Rega RB300 arm to go for either the OL RB250 & the OL Silver which were far better than the stock Rega RB300. Okay, but what the guy also failed to mention was that the Michell Technoarm was (and still is) better than both the OL RB250 & Silver and is around GBP 200.00 or more cheaper than the OL Silver. That is just one example that I picked out - there are others as well.

If one is advising others to check out the Origin Live Silver arm which is almost GBP 600.00 (or more) then at that price range they should also include the SME M2 and Roksan Tabriz Zi arms - both of which will see off the OL Silver arm but yet they hardly get a mention. These are the arms that the locals of Lawrieville look to when checking out arms in the GBP 500 to GBP 600 price range, not the OL Silver which represents poor value against the aforementioned arms, not to mention the Michell Technoarm. Below the GBP 500 price range, the Michell Technoarm is king out here and for good reason as well. That's why I'm always wary of all the advice dished out by these hifi magazines.




Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.

 

the emporium will sell you an o/l silver 250 for £500 plus a good trade in on your old arm. i got mine for £400 as i traded in my stock rb250. fair price i reckon. but you are right, price does'nt gurantee performance.

 

Hi Data,

I would go for the Gyrodec as well. I have heard a number of Origin Live decks over the years to mixed opinions. I have heard a few Gyrodecs recently which have been good. I heard a Orbe modded one against a lp12 which was interesting.

I have heard some of the recent Origin Live decks at a few shows & wasn't over impressed. This is not to say they are not any good but to say in that enviroment & system it didn't do it for me.

I too have heard a number of bad things about Origin live stuff. There was a review in HiFi News of the DC motor mod. This commented on the poor build quality & noise of the unit but it performed well. They had to get a 2nd sample for a 2nd review. This was better built. I have heard off people about the build quality of some of their items. But I have also heard good things as well. I have a Origin live modded RB600 which is more than fine. I bought a turntable table of them many years ago which was a 2nd. When I got it, I couldn't find any thing wrong with it.

Michell have been building the Gyrodec for around 24 years & they had been a top notch company. I would plump for this as it is a more known item. It does sounds very good as well. It will work well with the Rega RB250/300 arm & all the offshots. Also with the SME IV/V arms. Unipivots like Haddock work well in it also. The upgrades do make a difference as well.

It seems HiFi World are big fans of the Origin Live gear. They have given a lot of product from Origin top reviews. But they are also fans of the Michell stuff as well. The Editor is a Gyrodec user & Michell fan.

BTW, Which Origin live deck is it? There have been many since the 80s.

 

Its going to be difficult to dem the OL deck, not so the Gyro. I'd go with the Gyro. I have the OL mod on my RB250, but if the Michell version were available when I was in the market, I'd have got the Michell. It works well, but compared to Michell's its a bit agricultural.

• Michell's engineering standards and quality of finish are second to none.
• Their support is excellent and they still provide service and support for all decks they have ever made
• The Gyro is a deck which was way ahead of its time and has evolved and improved over time and has a clear upgrade path
• Michell decks suffer little depreciation should you wish to sell on

In short, the OL may well be a fine deck, but the Gyro surely is a fine deck and for a number of reasons less risky to boot.

I have had dealings with both companies and whilst both were very willing and helpful, I'd certainly say that Michell came across as a lot more competent and experienced. So from a company point of view, Michell again.

PS. Lawrie, I know what you mean re OL and HiFi World, but as SCIDB points out they are Michell fans as well.

Of all the mags I must admit I like HiFi World best of the lot - the only mag whose readers section is actually worth a light if you ask me, mainly because it isn't just an advice page - they'll porint letters from readers who just have something to say. They are also happy to print readers letters disagreeing with their journos from the previous issue.

One may not always agree with any advice proffered, but then they don't always agree themselves. Its the only mag I've seen where a reader can offer a view or ask advice, the journalist responding comments or offers advice, only to be followed by another piece from another journalist disagreeing with the first. You don't get that in What HiFi

Certainly they are the only mag that takes the second hand market and older products at all seriously and doesn't follow the to be good it must be new line that all the others do.

 

Well I have had no xp of ol's quallity control, but like I said, the modded 250 was of a considerably better standard than that original rb250.

I will keep you posted, I may be able to afford both and sell one on. Certainly be interesting.

Not one to mince words, I do strongly suspect something is going on with the hifi world editor and Ol, If you notice,(( and I have quite a collection of hifi worlds)), that over time, the reviews are all favourble, ok nothing wrong with that, but every new item that comes out is praised highly, and it replaces the one on his deck that has gone before.

first the silver 250, then the illustrous and encounter lot.

And they are all strongly recommended in the mags questions, like pointed out, sometimes to the exclusion of other goodies

I noted the review about the motor noise, if there is anything I hate, it is noise and hums.

then a review saying the ol arm beat the sme V. now this was the last straw that REALLY made me think this

Put it this way, would you rather have an sme V or a ol pot pourri of bits stuck together? ( and would you rather have a 3k OL deck or a 2 K orbe? hmmmm not to difficult to answer.

Dean I think it is the recent kit turntable, the posher one...any exp? anyone?

Its odd, hifi world reviewed it, predictalby orgasming, and said it was non suspended, yet I can see springs inside....very odd...

 

look!

every man and his dog is making T/T s at the moment. the market has returned and everyone wants a slice of pie. i imagine that for the most part the vast majority of them are quality items. my personal concern is in the new 'hi-end' decks from reltively new t/t producers. has anyone any experience of AVID t/t's? this is part of my point, a manufacturer has produced a 'bargain','entry level' product 'the diva' that is more expensive than the industry standard gyro se.
are they hoping for peole who don't want to follow the crowd and want to spend more?
i have not heard, but would like to demo some nottingham analogue deck and clearaudio at the sub2k mark - anyone have any views?
and as for the project rpm9 being made of MDF - wtf

and finally - glad to see that noone has recommended the lp12 - hear hear

 

Hi Data,

You could well be right. I must confess I take everything they have to say about OL stuff with a pinch of salt.

I do think they are the best read of all of them though and OL aside seem less in industry pockets than the rest.

Not sure that I agree they always recommend OL to the exclusion of others in the readers section, though it may well be true that its is the case with one or some of the journalists who respond in the section. The readers section certainly expresses a far broader range of views amongst the magazine's journalists than any other - they don't seem to tow a party line, and also devotes far more space to its readers views than any other.

Their commitment to second hand and "classic" hifi also sets them apart from the rest. Can you imagine the likes of What HiFi suggesting to their readers that anything other than something brand new is even worth thinking about, let alone that kit 10, 15 or even 20 years old might be able to hold its own against modern kit?

As to the quality of OL stuff, the only OL product I have is the structural mod - it works and the finish is OK - but it certainly nowhere near approaches the standards you would expect from Michell.

 

Hi,

Some interesting points made. The thing is, all companies will have fans & detractors. Not everyone aims their comments on experience. But then different people can have different experiences with things.

Hi Fi World has championed various Origin Live products. The thing is that there are a number of happy customers. Mark Baker has been running Origin Live since the mid 80s when he releases a range of solid core cables & turntable supports. If things were as bad as some people make out he would have gone out of business long time ago. This is not to say there haven't been duff products. Every company can have duff or faulty products for one reason or another. Problems seem to start when your company expands it's business & sell more gear. Over the last few years, Origin Live have released a lot of gear. Hi Fi World is also a diy & tweaker mag so any company that offers diy kits & tweaks to equipment will feature more. Origin Live a big in this area.

Hi fi World does champion Michell gear. David Price, the editor, wrote a top notch review of the Tecno arm. He has been using a (Orbe modded) Gyrodek for sometime. He recommends them to people. There are other reviewers who will have their favourite so a lot depends on what they like & what they get their hands on. Everyone could give you a different answer. Magazines often recommend recently reviewed items.

I saw the review with the arms & it was interesting. As for the Origin Live arm being better that the SME, I don't know. I have only heard it at a show. The equipment & surroundings were unknowmn to me. The only way to find out would be to listen in more controlled enviroments. I must admit, by looking at it, my vote goes to the SME. From what I remember from the reviews, it didn't seem that the Origin Live was a clearout winner. It was down to personal preference. If I had done the review maybe the SME would have come out on top.

As to which to have 3K OL deck or 2K Orbe, it depends which sounds the best to my ears & is good enough built for the money. The Current Origin Live decks don't look as majestic as the Gyrodec built they seem well put together.

As for the kits, there has been a few different kits from Origin Live. The current Ultra kit has a spring sub chassis. There is a standrd kit that is not sprung.

Is it any of these?

http://www.turntable-kits.com/1-turntable-standard-kit.htm

http://www.turntable-kits.com/1_turntable_ultra_kit.htm

http://www.turntable-kits.com/1-ultra_kit_hfw.pdf

If you can, buy both decks & live with them for a while. Sell the one you don't like.

SCIDB

 

I think its an ultra kit, am having a look today.

I like hifi world mag, not knocking it, it is like you say the least bribed mag., but I think they insult our intelligence if they expect us to believe that the manner of recomendation is so overt that one has to conclude there is more to it than meets the eye.

 

Hi Muffinman,

There has been a lot of turntable activity in recent years. Most of the big guns from the 80s are still making newer versions of their decks. (e.g. Roksan, Linn, Michell, Townshend) but their have been a few new faces to the UK market. (Project, Avid, Clearlight etc).

There is a good market for decks but it's not as big as it was 20 years ago. The reason for so many is that a number of people have different ideas on what a good deck should sound like. This has meant the possiblity of decks using different design features. These features will appeal to different people.

The market will stay good as more people hear what a good deck can do. Bear in mind there a many people who still own & buy vinyl. Some people just want to play the records they have already got, some people will want the best etc.

Some of the new companies were not around in the 80s but are run by people who think they can do a good job. Like any new business, there is guarantee of success.

It's funny you should mention the Avid, I own an Avid Acutus & I heard a Avid Diva yesterday. I popped into my local hifi shop & Conrad Mas from Avid was there playing some of this items to the staff. The Diva is a very good deck for the money. (£1100) it is a scaled down version of the Acutus (£6000). I do have a good feeling that it may see off a standard Gyrodec. It saw off a Wilson Benesch deck that was there. The thing is that there will be people that may think it is better than the Gyrodek. It's down to choice. If someone thought it was a lot better they will go for it. You must bear in mind that the Gyrodec is not perfect, other decks will do things as good or better. The Diva is one to compare with the Gyrodec & the Nottingham analogue. The downside is finding a dealer who stocks all the options.

As a company, Avid have an expanding range. They do 4 turntables, cables, stands, turntable lids & import speakers. They are working with Teac to produce a cd player. They also have a sister company that is high in precision engineering. They also dabble in motor sport racing. All this has allowed them to produce the hifi kit.

Yes, I do like the stuff.


http://www.avidhifi.co.uk/index.htm

SCIDB

 

SCIDB,

I saw that review as well as that was one of the mags I picked up at the airport. Did you notice anything strange about that review and the verdict? Just to recap (from memory here as I don't have the magazine in front of me) the arms reviewed were: Origin Live OL1, Origin Live Silver, Origin Live Illustrious (have I left out any more Origin Live arms?) Linn Ekos, Roksan Nima, SME IV, Hadcock GH242 or something similar etc, etc. Now, what I couldn't understand as this may have influenced the results was why the reviewer chose to use the Origin Live Aurora Gold turntable to review the arms instead of using a neutral deck. Oh, I know why! According to him, he used the OL Aurora deck because - wait for this - "it is the most neutral deck available right now". I can still see the page (in my head) on which that comment was written. Now, forgive me for being cynical here but is it any wonder then that the Origin Live Illustrious tonearm took the Gold from that review especially when used with a deck from the same stable? I wonder which arm would have been considered the best if the SME10 turntable had been used instead. Reviews eh, who needs 'em?

Btw, it's good to see that the HFW Editor has his priorities right when it comes to choosing his own personal turntables eh, "Michell rules okay" I guess.




Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.

 

You memory and mine match, and yes I did think "Hmmmm" that gives the OL offerings a bit of an unfair advantage, but then (as always with the mags), you sort of take in what you are reading with this in the back of your mind. The other strange thing being that OL had a number of arms in the test and everyone else got one

OL didn't get it all there own way though if memory serves. At the lower end of the price range (the end I could afford if I was in the market), the Michell Tecnoarm, the Hadcock and the Roksan "beat" the similarly priced OL offerings. Mind you, HiFi World also seem to have nothing bad to say about anything coming from Len Gregory's stable either and I believe the Hadcock plus Music Maker cart is his main offering

 

of course i fully understand this. i would not be contemplating an upgrade otherwise. i had little idea that the scope for tweaking in vinyl reproduction would be a bigger money pit than that of cd. i also understand that the term 'money pit' is a bit vague in the sense of vinyl as so far the upgrades i have made have all been UPs and not SIDES.
i was extolling the gyro's virtues for a first time buyer. my interest is in my future upgrade.
with this in mind, a diva is unlikely to be my best bet. no doubt some of their more expensive models will require a demo. i beleive walrus do a wide selection of t/t's though i'm not sure avid is in their range.
btw - congrats on your accutus - you must be very pleased with yourself

 

Uncle Ants,

Thanks for that. It's good to know that I am not alone. It must be noted however, that I have nothing personal against OL (the company) but I just think that their products are being over-hyped out of all proportion to their competitors who are churning out even higher quality products. I also nearly bought into the hype when I was looking to change my Incognito RB300 tonearm. Luckily, I was able to borrow a friend's Origin Live Silver to compare against the Incognito RB300. Well let's just say that after all the hype I was not impressed especially when you consider the price of the OL Silver. After two weeks on my Gyro SE, I realised it was not worth the cost so I decided not to order one. In some ways, it just made me realise how good the Incognito RB300 was. I am now using a modified SME IV arm. Nuff said!!

Yes, I did notice the oversupply of OL arms in the review that's why I was wondering if I'd left out any other arms from the OL stables. You just have to laugh sometimes don't you.




Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.