2nd hand CD player experimentations

I recently got myself a pair of ATC Active 20s, upgraded from Active 10s. These are superb speakers but I've found in what seems to be their ideal position (I've spent weeks and weeks messing with positioning, as these speakers demand that kind of attention to detail) they're a bit dry and bright with a bit more treble energy than is natural to my ears. By angling them back I can tame the treble somewhat but at the expense of somewhat muddier midrange and less well-focused imaging. It may be that this is a room reflection issue (due to room arrangement I'm forced to listen across the room width so speakers and listening position can only be so far from the walls - in this case about 40-50cm and 60cm respectively), and I hope to get m'self some tasty acoustic treatment in the not-too-distant future, but this is a fairly expensive proposition.

Anyway, to cut to the chase, I've recently been reading reviews (both by magazines and on online forums) that may indicate that my CD player is the root of the issue. I have a Meridian 507, which I've owned for a year now, and which replaced a 506.24 which I'd owned for about 18 months prior. I must confess I didn't try any other CD players when I made the jump from the 506, and even when I got the 506 I only compared it to one other CD player - the Cyrus CD7 (which it trounced quite viciously) - and that was in a dealer's store dem rather than my own system... Perhaps not the wisest move(s) but I liked what I heard so I was happy.

But recent reviews that I've caught here and there seem to suggest the 507 has a somewhat dry - even slightly bright - balance. There's no suggestion of harshness or unruliness in the treble (which isn't a problem in my system at all; treble is sweet, detailed, and refined - I only find it a bit "overexcited" compared to other frequencies), just a slight excess of treble energy and lack of warmth.

So, as so often happens in this daft hobby of ours, I've been considering trying something new. The 507 is a current model and retails for £1200 new, and my unit is in mint condition (as long as I replace the rather battered remote...) and only a year old, so I'm hoping I might be able to get £800 for it, or at least not too far off. I have no disposable cash at the moment, so if I'm going to swap it, it has to be a straight swap - if I hear something I absolutely must have, I might consider putting up to an extra £100 toward it (or, in the case of extreme lust, I could perhaps save up a bit beforehand... but I'm not a terribly patient person, so consider this unlikely. )

So. I need some advice. What should I be considering? What should I be listening to? Consider my budget to be about £800 - £900 tops, and £600 is probably more reasonable. And yes my preference is definitely for secondhand - I doubt very much that there's anything for £600 new that could even come close to my 507!

So what am I looking for, sound-wise? Good question. As I said, I haven't seriously tried anything but Meridians in my system in about two and a half years, so I'm hoping to try a wide variety of different "presentations".

First and foremost I'm a realism junkie - what turns me on about hifi is when I can close my eyes and believe there is a real singer or instrument or orchestra in front of me. This means dynamics, resolution, excellent imaging, solid soundstaging. I also like my music to be engaging and conducive to head-bobbing/foot-tapping, though I don't want "PRaT" at the expense of neutrality or certain frequency extremes that shall remain unnamed.

Yeah, I'd like the end result to be approximately neutral in tone - i.e. I don't want fluffy colourations that supposedly enhance the sound. This is what I thought Meridian CD players were all about, and I have yet to be convinced otherwise, so this is a bit of an experiment to see if anything else out there can come closer to neutrality. If it must be coloured, I'd prefer it erred on the side of warm & cuddly, as opposed to stark and lean, if only because the ATCs can be quite punishing of the latter upstream. But the less of this erring the better...

I also have a fairly high standard set by the 507 in areas of smoothness, cleanliness, resolution, authority, dynamics, and timing. I'd much rather not downgrade any of these qualities if at all possible.

I've put together a short, er, shortlist of ideas to try, and I appreciate your thoughts and experiences with them (as well as suggestions for other things I haven't thought of):

• Arcam Alpha 9, CD92, FMJ CD23
• Naim CD5, CD5i
• Sugden CD21, CDMaster
• Musical Fidelity A3
• Quad 99CDP
• Rega Jupiter
• NAD Silverline S500

Cheers,

Dunc

 

I know everyone will want to kick my head in, but try a Mana table for the CDP. Much cheaper than changing the box, and it may well be just what you need. 14 day money back guarantee....

 

Sounds to me like you're trying to tame room acoustics to reduce the extra forward presentation.

Assuming the above is correct, I'd not recommend changing the CD player, as my own listening experience with one suggested that it was pretty well "rounded" already. Some of the other players (e.g. the Naim units) are actually likely to make it worse.

So I'd suggest the following ideas:
1. Try the cheapy solution first, ie. playing with room acoustics. For a start, try hanging a duvet behind your listening position to see the effect? I found this made a big difference in my own room.
Clearly it's not a long term solution, but might be an interesting test.

2. Look at the cabling. Clearly this is a LOT cheaper than replacing major components. Could well tame things

3. You haven't mentioned your pre-amp. Could this be the offending article?

 

Oh, well in that case try a seismic sink too! You could try a eupen power cable too on SOR. These could be a cheap fix.

As you know, I am a bit of a source first person, so I would say your experience is a classic case of the back end of the system highlighting inadequecies further up the chain. IME room acoustics are often blamed for problems that lie elsewhere.

From your list, I'd try the Quad 99 and the Naim CD5/5i. These are all pretty good players IMO.

 

So to try to improve your setup you are looking for a player of half the price?


You could try a different approach. My 507 sounds great with my 551 integrated. Looks very good too.

You'll have a hard time trying to beat the 507 on that budget. Plus I couldnt part with my 507 for a cheaper tinny box job.

 

PumaMan, I'm looking for more of a sideways step than an upgrade - and I intend to spend just as much as I get for my 507, so I'm looking at the same sort of price bracket actually. I'm just looking to try different presentations of sound.

Mr Sukebe, I'm actually currently using a duvet pinned to the front wall, between the speakers. I think it made a bit of an improvement to soundstage depth, but I'm not sure as I can't be bothered trying AB comparisons. I've got two thick sheepskin rugs pinned to the wall behind my head, so I'm not sure there's much else I can do in that regard, though I suppose I could try the duvet there instead.

As for Mana, Siesmic Sink, etc. well.... I did say I wanted to avoid spending money. I'd love to try such expensive exotica, but it'll have to wait till I'm feeling a good deal richer.

Anyway, mostly just looking for ideas of CD players that have a different presentation to the Meridian.

Oh, and my preamp is the ATC CA-2 preamp - by all regards a top pre, though I suppose it could be contributing to the sound... d'oh, didn't think this was going to be straightforward.....

Dunc

 

If you could spare £50 (less s/h) the eupen may help a lot here. Maybe you could borrow one from a friendly forum member to see if it does anything useful!

 

Phew thats ok then!

I wish you luck in your search.

 

How about this?

 

Dunky,

Personally, I doubt theres anything wrong with a Meridian 507 in the context of your system. I doubt changing it (or ammending kit in other ways) will alleviate your problems.

Room acoustic treatments dont need to be expensive. They are always expensive if you buy them instead of making them however.

Rugs and so forth on the walls are going to help absorb only a fraction of what a properly made absorber will do.

Ive experimented a fair bit, and made absorbers.. making a lot of discoveries on the way.

I'll put details up at some point.


Chris

 

Dunc,

As is usual on the forums, umpteen opinions

Anyway, I hope you can find a resolution to your problem,

 

If you must change your CDP, try a Meridian 588 (you have to save up a bit to get one secondhand). I didn't think much of the 507, but bought a 588 and only sold it on to finance upgrades to the TT. Very good player, smooth as you like, not bright at all.

However, I don't think you'll get anything worth swapping your 507 for for your budget, TBH. You might get a slightly different presentation, but nothing significantly better.

I use a CA2 pre too, into my Active 10s. I've had a fair few preamps here over the last year, most of them significantly more expensive, and none of them are as good IMO.

Oh, and ATCs sound better with a decent vinyl frontend than a CDP, but what doesn't?

Try supports, cables, as mentioned by others. You never know, they may do it for you.

-- Ian

 

Saints preserve us

Most likely culprit here is that the room is too lively. What have you got in the room? What have you got on or against the walls?
If you only have four bare walls then your room will likely sound bright and hard.
You either need to absorb some high frequencies or you need to scatter them. You can test for the applicability of the first by hanging up a duvet or two as already suggested. Bookcases make quite good diffusers/scatterers.
Are you using the grilles on the ATC's? If you've taken them off, try putting them back on.
The 507 is the least likely culprit here.

 

I think you guys are putting too much emphasis on the room. ISTM that you are suggesting that one should try to compensate for a unsympathetically matched system by messing around with room acoustics. IME this never completely tackes the root cause of the problem.

if I was being brutally honest, the finger of suspicion would also point towards the speakers as I reckon that the ATCs are more than capable of showing a dry, bright balance.

But hey, what do I know.

 

Must... not... rise... to... the... bait....






















































BOLLOCKS!

-- Ian

 

The room frequently *IS* the root cause of the problem. I can't say whether it is in this case as I haven't visited the room in question. Which is why I asked the questions
As for the ATCs - dry perhaps, bright probably not. They tend to major on neutrality.

 

LOL, I knew that would get a response.

But Ian, you yourself have posted up that the ATCs like warmer sounding ancillaries, and you used a valve amp at one time. The point I am driving at is that maybe the tonal characteristics of the ATCs and the meridian (if as dunkyboy says it has a slightly dry and bright character) may not be complementing each other. Pure speculation of course, as I have not heard his system.

 

You haven't heard mine either... Must drag yerself into the big smoke one day.

I used to think a warmer front end was a good move, but I was wrong, or I've changed my mind, one or the other. I actually think they're a really good all-rounder, provided you have sources that aren't edgy at all (not necessarily warm, but as even-handed as possible, if you get my drift). They work really well with a good valve pre, but for the long haul ATC's own pre is a better match for my needs. Everything works to my taste with that combo. The ATC pre is also an excellent headphone amp, a purely practical reason for favouring it.

They're definitely not bright. No sirree. Never really known what to make of "dry" in a hi-fi context, it's one of those slippery words.

-- Ian

 

I think bright was the wrong adjective for me to use. Cool sounding?? I am struggling to put it into words

 

Us sophisticates prefer "neutral". They're not euphonic, that's for sure. They need time to fully reveal their charms. After you get used to them, they do make most other box speakers sound wrong. Provided you grow to like them, I can see why some people don't.

-- Ian