30 years on...

in exactly the same way that Messers Stradivarius, Guarnerius, Amati et al deduced that a hollow body on their instruments amplified the vibrations going on outside. Conversely, Messers Paul and Fender used solid bodied as acoustic amplification was not required.

therefore it should be evident why one would choose a hollow or solid plinth.

 

But what does any of this actually have to do with how the LP12 performs on audition? Assuming that one can restrain oneself from "knocking" it, that is.

 

Stop being so pedantic James, you are trying to start an argument again.
I did not say i was an expert on the LP12, you quote out of context, as usual.

If you ignore the obvious, by that i mean the physics of hollow vs solid objects that is your choice. You only make yourself look stupid, so i dont really care.

It is pointless continuing a discussion with you, as again and again you ignore the obvious to try and justify your system.

 

Do you believe that solid objects don't resonate?

I'm not trying to "justify" my system, how is that possible? What I am actually doing is defending the LP12 against some pretty unfair criticism. I don't use an LP12, in any case.

I would reiterate that assessing any hi-fi, including stands, by tapping, or knocking upon it, is about as useful as kicking tyres.

 

Ill answer your dumb question-

No i do not believe that, but it is well known that a solid object has inherently better self damping abilities. As Kennyk has mentioned above, a hollow structure inherently will resonate and amplify any vibration applied to it.

This is all, of course, irrelant to the LP12 discusion, but not to your mis-understanding of basic physics.

 

don't think that's true. for example, if it so happened that the armboard was accidentally touching the plinth, then you'd be able to tell by knocking the plinth during a quiet or silent passage. as a fault finding exercise it can be invaluable.

 

I'm not certain that any of that is true. Doesn't it depend on materials? And how do massy, solid plinths dissipate their stored energy?

 

The armboard doesn't touch the plinth.

 

Yet more pedantic questions.

James, in this discussion it would be safe to assume we are talking about hollow vs solid of the same material.

Explain how they obtain energy to store....

 

Vibrations: from the air, motor, cartridge, etc. They have to go somewhere.

 

yes, that is true but only when the deck is set up correctly. given the ineptitude I've seen from dealers in the past, I'd be knocking the plinth to make sure that it isn't touching, especially if the deck has been moved. as I said, it is useful as fault-finding exercise. clearly, kicking tyres is not useful for fault-finding.

 

the cartridge should be isolated from the plinth. especially as we've already ascertained that the armboard doesn't touch the plinth.

 

The cartridge generates vibrations. Correct set-up is assumed.

 

pointless

 

I'm just wondering why an LP12, with all that superb up to date engineering, needs 19 layers of Mana.

 

Any turntable will benefit from 'isolation' Alex. Especially yours!

 

Yes, a big piece of slate is all that was needed.

 

so if correct setup is assumed there are no vibrations from the cartridge being transmitted to the plinth.

 

Voodoo physics rules.

You (and there's more than one!) throw out words like 'self-damping' and 'resonate' yet you clearly have no idea what they mean, or whether more or less 'self-damping' might be good or bad in a turntable plinth.

FWIW the LP12 plinth cannot be described as 'hollow', it's a box composed of multiple materials. The main purpose of the wooden bit is to look pretty, the action occurs in the stainless steel top plate. You might consider whether a bent plate is 'solid' or 'hollow', and what 'resonate' means.

Paul

 

How might vibrations from the cartridge be being tranmitted to the plinth?

Paul