30 years on...

Your assertion is that the steel subchassis of the LP12 fitted with an armboard and main bearing supporting the platter assembly and inside the plinth vibrates as a consequence of sound pressure acting directly upon it? Maybe you're right but it would seem to be a very low order effect, especially given the stiffness of the subchassis and its tuning to quite a high pitch, where there isn't a lot of sound energy, and what there is is surely significantly attentuated by the mere presence of the plinth and proximity of the top plate.

BTW 'complex nodal/antinodal environment', congratulations!

Paul

 

I had an LP12 once...

Press 'go' - sometimes it would spin, sometimes it wouldn't.

Sometimes it spun clockwise.

Othertimes it spun anticlockwise.

That was when they cost £75 - a month earlier they'd been £55.

 

I had a sandwich at lunchtime.

 

what type?

Mr Ranson,
Your chosen subject is BS and denial, your time starts now

 

Come on, penance, you have been rather vague with your energy transfer stuff.

AFAIK, none of us is a TT designer, so all our theories mean very little. What matters is the sound.

 

and Mr Denial seems rather vague at being able read posts correctly, or maybe it is selective blindness. I have tried to explain what i was talking about, but he seems intent on misquoting and using other peoples posts in an argument against me.

Mr Denial could do with digesting that aswell

 

Exactly! I had an LP12 for 15 years, loved it to bits. My mate has one still, the same spec. Lingo/Cirkus/Ekos/Arkiv. I now prefer my vinyl spun on a GyroSE/VR/SME/Ortofon KB. We both love music, he likes his LP12 I love my Gyro, we both appreciate each others choice and taste. Why can't you all just get along.

 

Well said NRG. I just don't see why the LP12 is singled out for so much bashing. It's clearly still a very good TT at its price point so who really cares that it's an old design or what its theoretical design issues (if any) might be?

The fundamentalist zeal with which some people attack the LP12 is quite mystifying.

The Caterham 7 is a 40+ year old car design yet in its many variants it will run rings around most modern supercars. Old doesn't necessarily mean bad.

Michael.

 

Because the Devil has one

 

The funny thing is I don't think people either read the posts or understand them......

my point was that just because its an old design does not mean it is bad. Its never been my flavour.... in what ever guise or added extra.

The bit about vibrations was aimed at that facile question someone asked, I can't be arsed even to scroll up to see who the *lonker was

 

Michael,

Naim gets similar treatment on PFM a lot of the time. You learn to live with it after a while.

To be honest, all the arguments on this thread about the theory of turntable design go completely over my head, and more to the point I do wonder what purpose is served, except to prove that there is no one true way to design a decent-sounding turntable.

Keep it up though chaps - this is fun!

Cheers,

Jon

 

NRG,

Linn LP12s, Naim, ATC, Mana get such a bashing (from time to time) because it counterbalances the extremely strong opinions some people have of their products.

Essentially, if you bang on about something for long enough, you're going to invite criticism and debate.

To my mind, people speak so vociferously about their product in question, BECAUSE THEY WANT criticism and debate.

You can call this actively seeking fun, trolling, or anything else you like.

I'd agree that things definately get too nasty from time to time, and sometimes it gets forgotten that we're all just people that like listening to music on hifi's...and talking about them on the internet!

Chris

 

deep man! Are you saying that deep down, they have insecurities about their purchases?

 

Well you may have given a stupid answer but it isn't a stupid question.

If you're going to get into physics and engineering then you must expect to be sanity checked. If you don't really know what you're talking about then stick to 'I like it because it sounds good to me' or 'I don't like it because it sounds bad to me'. Although I'm interested to know what was better 30 years ago.

Paul

 

Some are Insecure about themselves, and insecure people often need approval from peers to feel happy about the decisions that they've made.

Others might just be wind-up merchants..!

...but then why do any of us visit hifi forums?

 

For the good advice and the quality of the conversation......

 

good answer!

I just thought when I was typing my last post 'we all like to be praised about the things we buy, and everybody is a little insecure at heart'...

Zerogain is a smashing little community, I agree

 

Hi,

Generally because of the "Linn ueber alles" public pontifications by the members of the cult of Linn, which are usually toecurlingly obviously inaccurate. Also, I am not sure a reasoned critique of design features of the LP-12 and/or a reasoned critique of the sound produced by the LP-12 is actually "bashing", unless any act to criticise anything in any way is "bashing it".

Is it? On what sorts of grounds? Also, what has the price per se to do with anything. If I state "A is better than B because of the following reasons....." The price irelevant and imaterial.

The fundamentalist zeal with which some people defend the LP12 to the exlusion of logic, common sense and 17th century physics is quite mystifying too.

Ciao T

 

Thorsten

If you believe that the replay qualities of the LP12 do not exist, that these magical qualities are in the minds of their owners, I am not sure what you have to gain by converting them to your position, other than the satisfaction that you have done so. In other words, saving them from themselves, which is what religious fanatics have demonstrated a need to do.

I am pretty sure that you are not in any of their wills, and every penny saved from not following the Linn upgrade path will not be left to you. So, there being no pecuniary interest in your success to convert LP12 users the world over, we are only left with either your need to be "right", and proving to others your rightness, or the need to save them from themselves, or the need to save them from charlatans (read: the devil/Ivor). Either way, the similarities between you and the religious zealouts are striking.

 

The amount of slagging of any given brand or product is usually directly proportionate to the amount of blinkered bragging that goes beforehand.