30 years on...

I fear this thread has already started to go the now too familiar way

 

did I imagine it, or did someone say that there were leaving (and not coming back) due to the trivial arguments etc..?

 

must have imagined it


it's interesting that there seems to be very little else in the way of components in hifi that seems to polarise opinions to this extent.

I've never heard a properly set up LP12 so I've no idea what I'm missing, if anything. I'm happy with my gyro/orbe. Once you've found the one, stick with it.

 

Seriously, BBV, your argument is with the staff of Stereophile, and not with me.

Write to them.

 

i still

can't understand the delight so many forum posters get from slagging off other peeps gear.
it is just stupid childish stuff.
the lp 12 is a good record player so why are people slagging it off so much ?
who cares when it was first produced.
this is a waste off bandwidth.
i wonder how many of you actually play music on your hi fi.
as i have said before if your hi fi is worth more than your music collection you are already way past being a music lover and into hi fi nerd territory.
get real ..... a linn is as valid as any other bit of kit.
if someone likes listening to it great, if not forget about it.
it's not hard.

 

I think what has been established is that some people like the LP12, and some people don't. I am TBH really bored of the cyclical argument. This was quite a reasonable thread until one member started sniping and regurgitating the tedious argument that went on in another thread. Predictably it's going downhill. We're going in circles here guys. If it carries on I shall pull this thread as well. Posting on this forum is not a god given right.

 

You don't need to 'pull' the thread, just delete the irrelevant remarks.

 

Hi,

As you are no doubt familiar with the system behind "Analog component of the year" stereophile operates (otherwise, why quote them?) you know that this rating applies to products reviewed within THAT PARTICULAR YEAR. It implies that in reference to other items reviewed in THAT PARTICULAR YEAR the specific product mention was considered outstanding.

Often the "Product of the Year" status has more to do with the weakness of the opposition, than with the strength of the product. I would recommend to those interested to compare the runners up for the various years....

In 2003 the SME 30 was "Analog component of the year"

In 2002 the TNT V-HR was "Analog component of the year"

In 2001 the SME 10 was "Analog component of the year" (and a copy of the little brother of my own table won "first runner up)

In 2000 the Rockport Sirius was "Analog component of the year" (had the LP-12 had a review in 2000 it might not even had a "honorable mention")

In 1999 the Rega Planar 25 and VPI TNT IV where joint "Analog component of the year"

As for Mr Salvatore, he lists the TNT, which won "Analog component of the year" in 2002 among his recommendations, so yes, there are some that have won "Analog component of the year" in Stereophile.

Maybe if you did some REAL research that takes into account the whole picture instead of just picking soundbytes that appear to support your own choices and prejudices and posting them as you main contribution to the Forum (together with complaints over "conspiracies agaisnt ATC") you would find more who are willing to listen and consider your points and you would find yourself less frequently to have been promoting a quite unsupportable position.

L8er T

 

Thanks for that.

Can you explain how the LP12 came 1st in Stereophile's "Hot 100"?

 

3D Sonics seems unable to help himself.

 

Who decides which remarks are genuine???

BTW - basic engineering it may be, but the suspension is also there to remove low frequency interference from vehicles outside, walking around, doors slamming etc (if the deck's attached to a wall, all of these can potentially still need filtering out). If it was ONLY there to filter out motor/plinth vibration, why provide such a range on the springs? Tell me that (seriously)?

Also, Ariston DOES fit in there - the LP12 was made in the same factory IIRC.

I still have a problem with sticking a massive weight on top of springs (bouncy castle effect due to top heaviness, anyone), when the obvious solution is an inverted bearing and hanging the deck below the springs a'la Michell. Also the ridiculous need to use an adaptor to get 45, when almost any other deck in the world can play 45 right out of the box. Yes, I KNOW the deck's optimised for LP 12 inch (hence the name!!!) but most of us have a fair few 45 rpm items too - that adaptor is EVIL I tells ya!

To be fair to the LP12 though - I have to admit that I do like the styling - although I'd want a REALLY early one with red power button (or the one with the push black button with LED) - in some kind of afromasia (sp?) If you could get me one that would play in sub-optimal conditons (rented accommodation = no wall shelf) and sound almost as good as Audio-T's one, and that wouldn't need resetting every couple of years, I'd be interested

 

Ask Linn. The suspension is not supposed to bounce about on any suspended deck.

The LP12 is still winning prestigious awards 30 years on, so obviously Linn's engineering works. So many experts...

 

Hi,

I am NOT Stereophile or on their staff. So I am a poor source of commentaries on editorial policies and choices.

However, they do explain themselves usually quite clearly on selection criteria etc. In the prefix to the "Hot 100" you find the following statements by the Editor (John Atkinson):

""Most important." That was the phrase I used when I e-mailed the members of Stereophile's extended family of reviewers and writers to ask for suggestions when I began to compile this list. I didn't want to be more specific because I wanted to cast the net as wide as possible. But there are many factors that make an audio component "important": design innovation, sound quality, sales figures, influence on other designers, influence on the evolving market, influence on system synergy.

When I received everyone's suggestionsâ€â€thanks, guys, I'm in your debt big-timeâ€â€I reduced the number of contenders to just 100 and ranked the products from 100 to 1, trying to take all the above factors into account, as well as the impact each component had had on my own development as an audiophile. That a component was undoubtedly the best-sounding had to be weighed against how many people would have actually heard it, for example."

The ranking is therefore intensely subjectiveâ€â€I fully acknowledge that no one else would come up with the same list in the same order."

From: 40 years of Stereophile: The Hot 100 Products

Also, the LP-12 shares the list with the following interesting items:

Sony CDP-101 CD player
Philips CD-100 CD player
Sony SCD-1 SACD player

Rega Planar 3
Thorens TD124 turntable
Oracle Delphi Turntable
SOTA Star Sapphire Turntable
VPI HW-19 Turntable
Well Tempered turntables
Roksan Xerxes turntable
Rockport Technology System III Sirius turntable

Cello Palette analog equalizer-preamplifier
TacT R2.0 digital equalizer-preamplifier

Based on the earlier statements by the editor it appears that production/sales numbers (or the perception thereoff by the ex-british Editor) had a great impact on ranking, greater than absolute quality of reproduction.

L8er T

 

Why's that an 'obvious solution'? Solution to what? The Michell can presumably swing from side to side on its suspension, why is that a good thing?

One of the basic sanity tests for LP12 suspension setup is to give the record label a firm tap while playing, such that the suspension gets a good bounce on, and it won't skip or wow or otherwise get confused. What the suspension doesn't like is very low frequency shaking. I think Linn recommend the Trampolin for sub-optimal installation environments prone to this but I've never tried one as a cure for sloppy floorboards.

Paul

 

3D -- So it's all a big conspiracy?

 

I did delete the remark when asked.

My question about whether mags are still relevent is valid bub.

Anyway signing off this thread before I get the blame for it going wrong.

I will leave you guys to slog it out.

Cheerio!

 

i think the whole industry is a sham.
it's like the fact that denons mc carts are such good value most dealers won't stock them.
the fact that the little cambridge audio phono stage is so good and only costs £40.
the fact that an electrically efficient signal lead need'nt cost more than £40.
the fact that 16 bit audio is not perfect.
the fact that most speakers suck.
the fact that most cd players sound similar when volume matched.
there is just an endless supply of experts and bullshitters.
and my fave is that suspended decks often don't sound better than solid plinth decks but i won't comment on high mass decks as thats another kettle of fish.

 

Hi,

I called the LP-12 with the qualification "In My Experience" (IME):

"a reasonable and solid turntable"

So, calling a given product "reasonable and solid" is "slagging it off"? I do take exception to that.

Or is your attention to my person down to the fact that I pointed out the undisputable fact that Linn did not particulary bothered themselves with engineering when they wanted a turntable, but simply copied some other companies (arguably very good) design and then made minor changes (which are arguably improvements)?

I think others in this discussion have panned the LP-12 in considerably stronger terms than I did, in fact, I would argue I have not said anything negative about the product whatsoever!

But no doubt you will conscrue this nevertheless as a concerted conspiracy against Linn. Together with the one against ATC I am running. And the one against you personally of course, even though I did not direct my original remarks at you in any form and merely was polite enough to answer questions you raised about my comments to the best of my ability and in a poliet manner.

L8er T

 

for what its worth

3d i was not saying you slagged anything off. i agree with you.

also with bub though, as bub is merely pointing out that some people enjoy rubbing other people up the wrong way.
bub does this but in a very good humored way. i think if you had more experience of his www persona you would actually concede and agree with many salient points about hi fi.

i think the more ugly comments have come from more troll like peeps who just stir up relentless arguements and have very little experience of great gear in the real world.

bbv i just heard a wna phono stage beaten by a cambridge audio phono stage at £40 i suggest you listen to one it is quite shocking. you would need the more expensive £60 for moving coil though.

 

Hi,

Sorry if it looked as if I implied you did. The poster known as "The Devil" quoted you in his remark and I felt to answer his challenge only quoting him would remove too much context. I am unaware how to do nested quotes on this board, I'm only an IT guy.... ;-)

Ciao T