30 years on...

Just about to get one of these to go witrh a 2nd hand TD166 i have aquired, loos very interewsting for the price of a s/h project phon se.

for those going to heathrow on sunday, check out the Stamford Audio stand, Audioorigami will be there with their new arm, and it's a stunner, had a couple of top spec LP12 fans jaws dropping when he used it with a TD166 and a £17 ortofon cart, sound was amazing, he has a better cart for the show, all you vinyl guys should check it out, gotta Linn guy considering swopping his ekos2 for it!!!

 

Hi darryl,

It's the air of superiority, and general sniffyness about the LP12 (and everything else I own).

 

yes it makes me frown

as i know what your l.p. 12 has which others don't and how much better it sounds than a bog standard l.p. 12.
maybe if peeps had heard your one they would'nt be as quick to dismiss it.
is there really only about 8 of those ninja decks in existence ?

 

I honestly don't know how many John made. Probably about ten.

Markus Sauer has heard it, with Troika. Akiva is a substantial step up, and it's stunning.

 

i have heard a ninja

that had an aro on it.
it was superb and tons better than a standard lp 12.
i do like the new linn cart as well but it's effing expensive but at least they do a good trade in.
always preffered the roksans though and i even worked for them for my sins.
the tms is an awesome deck.

 

Never heard the TMS, but a lot of people rate it very highly. I was lucky to get a good deal on the Akiva.

 

Just out of interest, Mr Devil, you said at one point in relation to the LP12 "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
How come you've got a Ninja if the standard LP12 is so good? (I'm genuinely interested - is it like me wanting a Verdier but having to do with a Clearaudio (oh the suffering) cos the wife prefers it?)

 

I used to be matey with JW, and he gave it to me. I think it's a bit quieter than the standard LP12. Anything can be tweaked.

 

Gave!
That's a proper bargain...

 

Not quite gave, but a very good price/trade-in on my previous LP12, for what it can do. I've never yet heard a TT that can beat it (before you all start, that's not the same thing as saying that it is the best) but I'm keen to hear Markus' Verdier, of which I've heard mixed reports (not Markus').

In a way, I wish recent visitors had heard it with the Akiva, but there you go.

 

How much to LP12 go for on ebay these days? And how much are they new?

 

Do listen to the Verdier.. Quite an ugly beast, but certainly a fine TT (or at least I like it, but then I like free jazz..)

 

Yeah. The point comes when upgrading becomes sidegrading, and I have lost interest a bit.

 

Aye - it is about the music in the end rather than poncing about with expensive fancy boxes that sound 0.05% different from the old ones!

 

agreed

i feel once you get to fairly accurate hi fi in terms of the master tape you don't get really significant differences in terms of listenability , detail across the audible range, noise and distortion and lack of muddle. it all becomes different flavours.
good hi fi always makes good music sound better.
bad products of which the linn is not and nor are naim amps are just different flavours.
there are some very expensive things that i actually think are very poor when it comes to listening to music as they actually don't work properly.
early chord amps for instance can't unravel complex synth music like the black dog or play fela kuti in a musical way as the interplay goes out of the window regardless of source.
but i'm not criticising the new ones as i have not heard them.
i always look for coherence , timing and separation of the instruments and vocals but as a whole performance.
the verdier is nice.

 

Pot, kettle, black......

 

Very true.
Sometimes financial constraint will play a part, but ultimatly i think if you are happy with your gear then it can be very hard to actually upgrade.

James is obviously very happy with his kit, who are we to say it is not good? Beuty is in the eye etc..

I've not heard his kit so wont pass comment, but i imagine it is rather good.

The few LP12's i have heard were anything from OK to piss poor, but that all depends on arm/cart amp etc, also from what i can gather, Jame's LP12 is far from standard.

 

I think it's right to respect a product like the LP12 for its historical contribution and shaking up the audio world as it existed in the early 70's. It's also right to just listen to one and get great pleasure from the music as that is surely what everyone is after.

Making comparitive evaluations is very different. Aside from the subjectivity of it all it's strong stuff to say if it ain't broke don't fix it or that it's very special, or still competitive today etc. without substantiating it. James, I know you're fiercely proud of your LP12 or Ninja or however it is correctly termed but in all the posts I see I never actually see how you come to your opinion.

My own take as an example is that it deserves respect and is capable of great enjoyment but it is poor value and also beaten by other decks. It lacks the sophistication and breadth of talents of an SME10, it lacks the sheer soundstage, silent background, naturalness of intruments particularly piano of an NA Spacedeck, it lacks the life and zest and 3-dimensionality of a Gyrodek, it lacks the ability to cut through and into classical music in the way a Rega P9 does. Now, my views matter not a jot but it gives you some context as to why I remember my LP12s fondly whilst considering them new now as ludicrously overpriced.

Paul

 

I have the black ash, corner braced plinth, but what are these other two upgrades you mention and how exactly do they work?

 

I'm sure we'll soon be told why they dont work...