30 years on...

Paul, all I can say is that it is silent, on most records, no background noise at all, and that reveals a lot of stuff. Tracks fade out to total silence, like a CD. All the modifications are aimed squarely at reducing noise & resonance, and that's why it was called the whatsit. I've never heard quieter vinyl.

 

foil wrapped cheesy puffs?

 

It's a bit of a wanky name, isn't it? The big bad Ninja. Foil wrapped cheesy puffs is better.

 

I think when they first came out they cost about 10 shillings...

 

Do you ever stop? If you have nothing useful to say don't bother.

 

I said nothing insulting - its my opinion.

 

Well in that case your opinion has become rather tedious. You seem determined to turn every thread into an argument and spend your time knocking the LP12. Review this thread and see what effect your interactions have had, or potentially could have had. If you hadn't had such a large part in recent negative posts, no-one would have an issue with you now.

 

Last Man Standing?

 

I certainly dont want to turn the thread into an argument and the majority I have posted on havent (only linn atc threads have ended up being closed) so I have deleted my criticism of the lp12 - it saddens me to do so but I dont appear to have much choice. I didnt think it was any more tedious than the constant glowing praise which I consider to be out of touch with reality. I will refrain from posting to any lp12 threads in future including this one. Theres no point. Hopefully that will avoid further issues if I keep my criticisms about the lp12 to myself.

 

It's actually you who is out of touch with reality. Stereophile know what they are talking about.

No more of your nonsense, thankfully.

 

Can we both stop this argument now please. Thank-you

 

In simple layman's terms, put it like this:
Linn-style suspension = roll on roll off (or over) ferries e.g. Herald of Free Enterprise - inherently unstable due to being top heavy, wallowing around.
Michell-style suspension = oil tanker - low centre of gravity, highly stable, but also (potentially) storing more energy.

Both'll make a right mess when they balls up, and both will wobble - Linn AND Michell decks can wobble side-to-side.

Interesting to note that the Planar3 is also on this lauded Stereophile list, isn't it?

I'll get my coat

 

Given the amount of local support they have, I'm a bit surprised the Isobariks weren't on the list. If Stereophile apparently knows what it's talking about, maybe they are not so good after all.

 

Except that the LP12 suspension clearly isn't 'inherently unstable' because it is actually stable...

It might be worth thinking through whether a pendulum could be considered 'stable' and what type of motions least affect the cartridge when playing.

Paul

 

Formula 1 cars are "top-heavy" suspended items, dom.

 

Hi,

Well, there several fundamental issues with suspended decks.

Most can be partially overcome by applying sufficient damping and a very heavy platter, that is then the Oracle/Michell Approach or by making everything very light which is the Linn approach.

I am always amused by people banging on about speed stability in record players (of which the "suspension wobble" ins supended decks is a form), when the variations introduced due to excentric center holes (and most likely also by the cutting lathes motor, which did not offer THAT GREAT a long & short term speed stability) are so much greater.

You need to get REALLY, REALLY AWFULLY BAD DESIGNS (I can think of one by a british company that made routinely piano notes have a serious vibrato untill they "upgraded" the design recently) before this becomes an issue.

The key is actually management of resonances, especially airborn from the speakers, which is where the really extremely heavy mass, unsupended decks come into their own, when placed on a suitable suspension rack. My deck with dedicated sandfilled stand and all weights around 90Kg and rests on a constrained layer damping platform worth another 15kg and that sits on extremely well damped diy "string suspension" devices which allow any movement only vertical, the "wobble" frequency from side to side is around 0.3Hz and is extremely well damped....

Anyway, I am usually shocked how unaware most audiophiles (which includes most journos, including especially stereophiles MF and iar's PM) are of the production process which was applied to their LP's, the differences in EQ settings during cutting even all the way through the 1970's and much of the 80's which can amount to as much as 9db compared to RIAA, the use of pre-distortion to compensate the tracing distortion of normal spherical and elliptical stylii the variations in Stylus Rake Angle (SRA, often mi-termed VTA) and even the variations in groove wall angle from the usually assumed 90 degrees.

Oh well, Vinyl as a medium is sufficiently dead to no longer bother with too much education about such fundamentals.

Ciao T

 

..and so, with an airy wave of the high hand, vinyl is dismissed. I love this forum.

 

Thanks, we aim to please.

 

Hi,

Hardly, I own several 1000 LP's and a slightly more serious LP replay (and LP cleaning) setup than most, but how many new LP's are actually being made and how many of these are actually new music and not re-issues from badly degraded masters?

So, what is the point educating people about how it really works, most of those still interested in Vinyl as high quality music medium "know" anyway what is the best system in the world, eg. LP Player X, Arm Y, Cartridge Z (regardless of how 2fit for the purpose" said items are under consideration of the actual LP's to be played) and this preamp and that speaker and so on.

Any discussion becomes an issue of faith, as of course there can actually be only one "right approach" (actually, virtually all approaches are a question of compromises and choosing them so the results suit the listener and what suits one listener is often unsuitable for another) and of course ALL sides in these arguments are about equally wrong, as they lack the understanding of the fundamentals (viz "The blind men and the Elephant").

Those who want to know more can find out more easy enough.

So, I do not dismiss Vinyl, I merely observe that it is a historical format, not a current one, for all intent and purpose, outside strictly DJ applications (and they fizzle out in the light of modern PC based systems as they improve).

L8er T

 

There's plenty of new music being issued on vinyl.