A challenge / scientific research involving Bub

Has anyone blindfolded Bub and got him to listen to mana versus something else like Isoblue or Hutter - different but better in certain respects - worse in others? Would anyone like to try this out? Bub would you be up for this? A proper blind listening test but we ought to have at least two other listeners blindfolded as well, and have at least two observers to document their feedback.

The reason I ask this is because I have carried out very extensive listening to mana versus hutter, isoblue, target and quadraspire and can clearly hear the differences (I bought Hutter) and to my ears, and those of the people with me, mana is not always the best. But, I am clear about where I think that mana can aid a system and have recommended it; something James that you can never bring yourself to do with another product.

What say you sir?

Dominic

 

Oo hello. Golly, in theory, yes. The practical difficulties of rack comparisons are enormous - for instance the racks take up quite a bit of space, and mains leads are only so long.

And I would insist on setting the Mana up myself, as it is quite easy, despite protestations elsewhere, to foul-up Mana installation.

Where's the venue? And where was your venue for your listening tests, btw? And who set it all up?

Interesting idea.

Are you based partially in Glasgow? If so, you'd be welcome to pop in sometime, but no tunes at the moment unfortunately, because I'm having some work done in the living room. Should be back up and fully-functional in about five weeks' time...

 

Setting up a proper DBT isn't easy even for testing boxes and cables. I'd say it's nigh on impossible to do with stands unless you have two identical systems available mounted on the two different stands (and then ideally you'd have to repeat the test with the stands/systems switched to ensure the difference - if any - really was the stands and not the systems).

Michael.

 

Ah but Dom,

Were your own tests done blind?

If not, shouldnt you also be testing your hutter blind?

(NB Im only asking to keep things equal, if Ive started another DBT thread I'll shoot myself!!)

 

I'd like to hear Bub's system on two Sound Org tables and an Audiotech. Speaker stands are a problem due to his room size, I think the height the Mana brings is good.

Paul

 

Wouldn't the trick be to have the systems and racks in one room, and the speakers/ listeners in another?
I would be interested to hear the "Mana effect" (or anyother rack effect for that matter) when it's taken out of the room.

 

It would be a different test. The mechanical feedback from the speakers through the floor to the equipment is part of the process.

 

I'd be very interested to know how they all compare to something like a slab of marble on cut in half squash balls or an inter tube!

 

Hi Paul,

I had a Sound Organisation stand & SO TT wall-shelf about four years ago, then moved to Ash Designs stand with the same wall-shelf. Mana was a big, big upgrade compared with these.

I suspect that you don't believe that Mana does very much - which is fair enough - but I thought that moving from phase7 to p9 under CDP, preamp & TT brought a very noticeable improvement in the imaging. Did you notice this change, which occurred between your two visits, at all?

The problem with listening to someone else's system is that you don't know how it sounded pre-Mana.

Regards,

James

 

So would I. :JPS:

 

Well, if you are 'very interested', go and find out.

 

Supply the mana and I will.

 

I might possibly be interested in a NAC 552, having read a lot about it, but I wouldn't ask you to supply it to me.

Mana have a 14 day money back guarantee, so you have nothing to lose except the time taken to set it up.

 

That won't work, because if I don't conclude that mana is the greatest thing ever, you'll cry foul and say that it wasn't set up right. Additionally, a single sound stage costs the same as my 100kg, 4 tier "Tonne Control" Granite, steel and inner tube rack did, and I don't have 600 quid for a mana rack. Money back or not, I don't have that capital.

 

I won't 'cry' anything.

I don't really mind very much at all (i.e. not at all) that you don't have Naim gear or ATCs or a Sondek or a Troughline, mainly because I can't hear your system from here. If I could hear it - say you set it up in my house, God forbid - I might possibly take a different view. I feel very similarly about Mana under your kit.

You are the one who is 'very interested', not me!

 

Chill lads!

Like Isaac I just don't have the money to buy a load of Mana or any other expensive isolation. So although I am very interested to know how they compare to a cheap DIY alternative I don't think its fair to use the money back guarantee if I never have any intention of buying it! Also if it does make a huge difference I won't like going back lol

 

I'm sceptical about stands full stop when under anything other than turntables or speakers. And in those cases unless grossly mismatched I think the effect is second order.

IMHO of course.

OTOH I enjoy listening to big Mana'd systems. And your system seems to image now whereas it didn't last September. Mysterious.

Paul

 

No I did not listen to the Mana blind but did you read my recent blind listening test? Yes I have just bought a Quad CDP and Amp from KJ West One based on blind listening, but as I stated at the time that it would not have made any difference to my decision as the difference in sound was clear for all to hear, blind or not.

The point of James (the devil) being blind is because he is so alsolute in that Mana is better than everything else and works with everything. I am convinced that he will change his mind if he does not know what he is listening to and also thought that it would be useful for those who have not heard mana.

From my piont of view, having spend £1200 on Hutter is made such a big difference to my whole system, amp included, that I want to promote decent tables, Hutter, Mana, Isoblue etc but I believe that they need to be matched to the system in the same way as speakers etc..

For this experiment I do not believe that this test needs to be double blind. What needs to happen is for James and one or two others not to know what they are listening to. So long as the operator of the test does not divulge any information then how can this detract from any findings that James may have - his verdict will be entirely valid and can be compared to the other listeners verdicts for reference. Clearly the results will be subjective but informative none the less.

James yes I would be very happy for you to set up the Mana and no unfortunately I am not in Glasgow, currently in London for two weeks but then Barcelona for a month or two. I was really hoping that you would be up for it and pleased that you are open minded, and that there are so many of you guys who meet up that people nearer to you would be able to facilitate.

Also the Mana was set up by Cornflake Shop who are an authorised reseller of Mana and I compared the mana to Quadraspire. I then did compared the Mana again at Phonography.

Thanks again for being up for this.

Dominic

 

"Mysterious" -- Paul R.

Yes Paul, a most perplexing mystery! ... ;-)

Dominic, I think it would be quite an interesting experience. FWIW, the only other support upon which I quite liked a system [syntax!!] was Hutter. But it was a Linn CD12 @ £12k.

There are some caveats, though. The first being that a quick A-B can be misleading because the music always/usually sounds better the second time through.

And you need to use familiar music, I think.

Then there is the matter of lack of upgradable-ness with Hutter. If we pretend, for the sake of argument, that Hutter is better than Mana phase 1, how does it compare with Mana phase 2, etc?

And finally, there is subjectivity. I think my system is the best thing since sliced bread, but a lot of other people seem to disagree with me. Who is right? Well, anyone with an opinion is right in their own eyes.

But it would be interesting.

Barcelona? Lucky b'stard!

 

Hi Bub,

You spoke quite highly of Paul Ranson's system which isn't on Hutter. I would therefore have thought that you have to include whatever stand Paul uses in the liked category. Unless of course stands are somehow unimportant in Paul's system.