A good room!

N ,you can make the room ,if not perfect then much improved, it is extremely worthwhile , the question has always been can you hear any digital artefacts from the conversion and with the Trinnov I can't!
Keith.

 

My natural instinct would be to treat the room with acoustic treatment as my preferred choice. But if you can do it in the digital domain transparently then I'd be very interested in that.

A one box solution that allowed me to room treat and work as a transparent pre-amp with analogue input would be a significant step forward. I've heard the TACT stuff and it's better than nothing but it's not transparent. I'd love to hear something better than that.

 

I can't see how a pre-distortion system will ever combat room issues in the Diffuse and Specular ranges. You can't get around the fact that a small movement of listening position will throw the whole thing out of whack.

In the modal and pressure ranges it is a different story, but I'm not sure super exact processing is necessary here since the deviations are quite broad.

Luckily it is easy enough to treat Diffuse and Specular ranges with physical treatment, while digital correction is great for the modal and pressure ranges. They compliment each other wonderfully.

I might just do an experiment, taking say 10 measurements in-room and averaging them. Then look at the deviation of that average from what is the known close-mic gated response of the speaker. The amount of deviation from the known response of the speaker would be telling about the areas where electronic correction would be possible.

 

That would be where i'd likely end up simon. Treat what I can physically and do the rest digitally.

Or just buy another pair of headphones..

 

I have been experimenting with digital room correction for few years now and most systems have their pros and cons. I have a horrible room and I have been using a Tact for a long time. For sure it is not the most transparent in the world, it has a huge learning curve but I just couldnt do without it. I had the chance to listen to the Trinnov and it is very impessive, better than my Tact and easier to use, the measurement and correction process is more automated and accurate. Dont forget that DRC is great for room correction and low frequencies but at high frequencies all it can do is change the tone and deal with the direct sound, it has limited effect on the reflected sound. That's where you need passive room treatment.

 

I do agree with reserve on the low frequencies.
Very important is the time interval which is took to measure the frequency response. Normally it will be over a (half) second. The correction on the lower frequencies will though affect the "first impact", the first 5-20 ms which are for lot of people very important. With the correction you're not hearing anymore linear but you minimize the bad influences of the room reverberation.
Sometimes I believe that it is better to leave a peak up to 6-8 db at the listening place then to correct it electronically. More important is to lower the reverberation of the room.
For peaks of low frequencies over 6-8 db a electronic correction is a good way to solve the problem.

 

I have now

So where exactly does it go in the system? Will I need some special leads?

 

Mark Hi, I have been plugging it into my phono stage, and then the output from the Trinnov into my preamp, but you only have one source, it might be better to plug between pre and power ,I will try that today
vb Keith

 

To be honest Keith, If it can go between the phonostage and my pre-amp then I think that would be best for me. It's not so easy to insert things between my pre-amp and power amp as the audio signal is routed via the power supply for the pre-amp and I don't have a working 'tape out' as I have removed the tape boards from my pre - it is all connected with DIN and XLR connectors too.

At least the output from my phonostage is phono.

 

Mark Hi, just tried it ( both ways ) doesn't seem to be any e sonically and it is more convenient to have everything running through the preamp.
I have to take it down to Greg and then I will send everything up to you, perhaps for the Holidays.
vb Keith.

 

Yes, my comment on the direct sound was meant to be for the HF only. As far as LF is concerned I will never try to correct more than 6-8db of a suck out, think of how much extra power is required for that. I do agree that the first few milliseconds are the most important ones and again it is vital to apply the correct pre echo filtering and the correct FFT window.

As Keith said, he is bringing down the Trinnov hopefully next week and we will have time to scrutinize the operation and the results. My first impressions were excellent when I heard it at Keith's place.

 

Greg Hi, next week is fairly clear let me know a day, I am looking forward to it, I have been messing around with 'target curves' for the last couple of days, very interesting, Trinnov have some interesting developments in the pipeline, I really beleve that soon a Trinnov box will replace source preamp as well as offering active room correction.
Keith.

 

Hi Keith,

is Wednesday ok with you? I will give you a call tomorrow.

I am looking forward to a good day.

Greg.

 

Wednesday is fine, I may not be around tomorrow but leave a message ,but Wednesday is fine, vb Keith.

 

In the next few months, as a current work project reaches conclusion, I may be able to get my acoustic eng. to do some measurements on LF-MF performance that could help illustrate some of the issues here... such as acoustic isolation between rooms using a range of partition designs (and doors!), and reverb control in both large and small spaces ( from <13m^3 to >200m^2) with a design target.

..i.e. while I know what we (i) want or need to achieve here, real numbers are always helpful . No promises, but I will try

 

How much do these cost?

 

The Trinnov ST2 is going to be £4k, Four of us met at Gregs place today and managed to compare his current set up, ( Tact and Audio Stnthesis Dax ) with the ST2, it was enlightening,
Keith.

 

Thanks to Keith and everyone else who came to our session today. All four of us were amazed by how the Trinnov made my whole system so much more coherent. treble was sweeter, the midrange more believable and the bass much tighter. In fact the high and lows just came together. I am keeping the Trinnov for the next week or so and I will try all sorts of configurations with it. More to follow. Greg

 

Greg Hi, thank you so much for your hospitality, the day passed far too quickly, I am genuinely interested to hear your thoughts on the Trinnov, very best,Keith