A nice pre amp required

I've got a rather smashing 211 valve power amp which I need a pre amp for. I've used it with a Stax variable o/p CD player but now would like to incorporate my PTA/ Hadcock/Rohmann vinyl and other i/p's; speakers are Dynaudio 1.8's - any ideas ?
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The Cliff Condos

 

What's your budget? Phono-inclusive or will you be using an external phono stage?

-- Ian

 

I'm thinking closer to mid market in budget rather than high end. Phono stage not necessary although a decent MC throw in one would not be unwelcome as I could cut down on the box count.
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HOW TO ROLL BLUNTS

 

Solid state: ATC CA2 (there's one in the classifieds here, £750 new). What I use, and it's far better than some far more expensive preamps I've used. I think you'd have to spend a lot of money to get something significantly better. The pre-outs use XLR connectors, but they're unbalanced, so any old XLR->RCA cable will do. Has an optional plug-in MM/MC phono board for around £280. Remote control and an excellent headphone output, decent number of inputs (5) and a tape loop. Complete bargain. I have a Leak Stereo 20 valve amp I use sometimes in place of my active ATC speakers and it works very well with this pre.

Valves: EAR 834L is really nice, comes in a more expensive chrome finish and in a standard ugly black box. No remote control, but very good (I had one before the ATC). The more expensive 864 includes switchable MM/MC phono (exactly the same as the one in the external 834P phono stage). Come up secondhand quite a lot.

Passive: WAD (http://www.worldaudiodesign.co.uk/) sell a kit (for a bit extra they'll build it for you) which I've heard in a couple of configurations and been impressed by. Don't know if you've experimented with passive preamps, but worth trying one if you get a chance. Michaelab has just built a Bent Audio passive kit and posted a thread about it somewhere here, also sounds like an interesting option.

-- Ian

 

I use an Audcom AP110 valve preamp with remote. It is line stage only and was modified by Paul Grzybek of Bizzy Bee Tube Audio Design in California.

I think it's excellent and it cost me $US 592, including shipping.

I've also got a spare AMC 1030A valve hybrid, if you're interested, which I'm told is quite good but I haven't heard it yet.

 

Thanks for that. I've heard good things elsewhere about ATC pre amps (are they the same people as ATC loudspeakers?)
I did try an Audio Research pre once but couldn't get on with the heavy detented volume control. I found a Graaf iti more elegant but sold it for cash flow.

 

Hi Jonboselector,

What is the 212 valve power that you have got. The photo looks like a Gamma amp?

SCIDB

 

Hi.

A number of pre's spring to mind.

Sideshows ATC is an excellent solid state pre, and even has a good headphone socket.

Valve, well I use a heavily modified Consonance Basie (available kit from DIY hifi supply.com. A local (to me) valve expert could build it for you for about 150, making a total cost of about 500. PM me if you want kits made for you, or modified kit - I would give you his details.

One to watch is the minimax - see page 16 of the ''what you got'' thread, a chap called blake has one in his system and photo. These are 500 ish, and have a fantastic reputation.

If you want something pretty good very cheap, the Audio Innovations L1 and L2 can be had for 200-300ish second hand. Very good for the money IMO.

Passives can work very well, if you have a high input sensitivity on your pwr amp, and like what they do. SCIDB and Michaelab have had a lot of success with these, and could tell you more than I.

Cheers
chris

 

Don't I know that pre, Chris? How's it sounding?

 

The Croft Vitale is a good valve pre amp and has an excellent mm phono stage. I have been using one with a Leak stereo 20 and a Sugden A21a. They are about £350 and can hold their own against some very exotic equipment. The soundstaging and transparency is first class. There is only one downside in that there are separate volume controls for each channel so you have to be carefull in setting the balance, though this does mean you can get it spot on with care.
Iain

 

(211's) A Black Beast I think it was called, made in Suffolk for the Emporium and not too far different to a Gamma I suspect. I was going to flog it but I think it could sound better than anything else I've currently got, I prefer its open even handed sound to some 300B 's I had previously.

 

Hi Steve!

Its sounding great thanks.


Its had extensive surgery, including all new caps of varying types, new valves, power supply changes, tape loop, elma pot etc. The casing is stil the same

Its an amp that really lends itself to tweaking.

The only problem Im having with it is that its kicking out more than my power amp wants to see, overloading the input somewhat. According to the bloke I use Nick (www.hificollective.com) the best bet is a resistor at the power amp end, which I'll probably get round to.

Cheers
Chris

 

Hi,

There is a connection between the Gamma stuff & the Black Beast. I'm not fully sure what.

The 211 valve is a transmitting valve & can sound very 'glorious' in the mid range. They offer more power than a 300B, usually 20 to 30 watts. The downside is that they require high voltages (over 1000volts) some extra demand is needed on the components. As a rule they are not cheap to build or as easy to build.

I do think that a very good 211 will beat most 300B amps but a well put together top notch 300B amp will beat, IMO, most 211 amps. A lot of the performance is to do will the design, components used (transformers etc) & quality of power supplies. Another important factor is how you drive the output valve.

Having said all this, the Black beast is something I would get going in your system.

As for pre amps, There have been some good suggestions so far. I have used the Audio Innovations both the L1 & L2 to good effect.

The EAR options are very good as well, the EAR 864 is a fine allround pre.

The Croft Vitale is another pre I had in my collection. I agree very much with Iain on this one. Excellent for the money, very good phono stage. The dual volume controls are a pain & you will need a step up with your cartridge. Well worth a look, as are the older Croft pre amps such as the Super Micro.

Another pre you could look at & one that I highly recommend is the SJS Arcadia Model 1. This is a valve pre that uses a choke input power supply. They offer very good detail & clarity with good bass performance. They are not as common as the offers but are more than worth a look. They don't have a phonostage.

Another 2nd hand bargain is the Finestra pre, which was Tom Evans first product. This can come with or without a phono stage. This is the front runner to the Vibe which is his current high end pre amp.

The Basie is a good looking kit that I have heard good things about. You can get it built or in kit form. Prices start from $299. They do it with or without a phono stage. The same company does a number of other kit including a standalone phono stage & the transformer passive pre amp, The Django. The Django is well worth a look as this may offer the best solution for the money.

http://www.triode-systems.com/diyhs_kit_sales.htm

The Bent Audio transformer pre amp is another one that is getting good thumbs up. It more expensive but has more options.

http://www.bentaudio.com/index2.html

Passive pre amps my be a way forward. If the power amps have a sensitive input &/or you can use short cables (low capacitance) then these may offer you the best solution. Passive can be picked for less than £100 or made quite cheaply. But the best ones will cost more (a few hundred £ upwards) due to the components used. The main strengths are clarity, detail & resolution, they can sound like a big veil has been taken off the sound. The weaknesses can be that they can sound dynamically flat & lacking in drive. Careful matching will reduce the weaknesses.

The transformer passives, the Bent & the Django, use switching transformers to alter the volume but offer better drive of the load. So you should get the strengths & not the weaknesses of normal passives. I haven't tried any yet but will be looking to try one of the above kits.


These are only a few of the many options open to you.


SCIDB

 

Yes. http://www.atc.gb.net/

 

Quote : I do think that a very good 211 will beat most 300B amps but a well put together top notch 300B amp will beat...

I wasn't putting down 300Bs generally - they can sound fantastic in some amps I've heard. Thanks for the suggs I will ponder them.
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Vaporizer Review

 

they can sound quite ordinary, too, audio note kit one for instance, odd as it looks great on paper, but boring...

I suggest valves to complement the power well, depends on budget, etc. I have nothing to add from the already excellent replies.

 

Yes quite.
I've heard 300B sounding nice in push pull mode. They have a nice rich personality. 211's probably sound less typically like the romantic notion of valves normally attributed. Some say they are more forthright than most
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How to roll a blunt

 

a nice pre-amp required

As I have been involved with hi-fi for almost 40 years, with a particular leaning towards pre-amps, I feel I am well qualified to make a recommendation here. If you do not mind the absence of remote controlled operation then go for the EAR 864. This Unit displays that all-round satisfying sound in bucket-loads in stock form. Due to its relatively simple circuitry it also responds well to tube rolling if that is your want.

 

Tube rolling ? I can't say I know what that is. Enlighten me.
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its just a term for something you probably already do -

stuffing new valves in of different brands to see what they sound like.

Chris