Advice needed on improving life and energy

Hi all

I'm really happy with my systems performance when it comes to portraying a natural acoustic, microdynamics, the tone of individual instruments such as guitars, spaciousness and unfatiguing sound. However I need some advice on how to improve the life and energy of the system.

I have the following mess:

Mac Mini used as music server
DIY usb / spdif converter using PCM2706 with own power supply
Canare BNC digital lead
Benchmark DAC1
DIY Venhaus silver ICs
Linkwitz orion active xo's
DIY Venhaus silver ICs
Pass Labs Aleph 3 for mid and tweeter
DIY UCD180 amps for bass
Goertz copper foil speaker cable
Linkwitz Orions

Speakers are isolated through Aurios Pro, the amps and active xo are stacked on the floor. Power is supplied to the amps through standard cheap included in the box power cords plugged into a DIY distribution unit made with MK sockets. Power to other components is through DIY Venhaus Power Cords.

Any suggestions? I live in central London, the room has a suspended wooden floor and is about 20' by 18' with windows along one side and a laminated floor. I was thinking either room acoustics or power. The sound does seem to vary from day to day, but maybe that is my imagination....

 

What stands/supports are you using ?

 

Nice speakers! What do you have on the walls? Especilly behind the speakers.

 

That Linkwitz website is very informative and an interesting read. How do they sound and have you compared them to other speakers?

Probably some of your cables could give some zing into Zodiac's system Zanash? Jim.

 

Hmm...

Zanash - I'm not using any stands or supports - there is an 'amp stack' behind each speaker comprised of bass amp, crossover and Aleph.

Tenson - I don't have anything behind the speakers or on the side of the room only a rug on the floor other than that it is hard surfaces galore

Jimbo - I've compared them to an all Krell system into a pair of Sonus Faber's high end standmounters (£3.5k) - the Orions were much better in terms of detail retreival, naturalness but didn't have the pace of the standmounters. I've also compared them to a load of £2k speakers including ATC SCM35, B&W 702s, PMC FB1 where the Orion was better in all areas.

 

Zodiac, I'm surprised you want it livelier when you have so many hard surfaces! Maybe you want it more engaging, better pace, rhythm and timing, with tighter more punchy bass so the music swings along more? In which case I would suggest you invest in some good bass traps.

Where are the speakers positioned? Being di-poles, you will get less room interaction in the bass if they are closer to the corners of the room.

 

Tenson - yes maybe semantically 'lively' is the wrong word. I was thinking maybe with all those hard surfaces there isn't enough absorbtion therefore sound tends to bounce around the room taking a long time to decay, thus making the sound less punchy, dynamic, etc.

I have access to a measuring microphone, etc - maybe I could take some waterfall plots?

 

Diffusors generally give far more precision and detail to the sound while not sacrificing the liveliness of the room. Absorption will give more precision as well but make the room sound dead, it also doesn't fix the problem of reflections, just attenuate them.

It might be what you want, but I think you would find some bass traps are more along the lines of what you are after sonically.

By all means take some waterfall plots. RT60 is commonly used for the high frequencies while waterfalls are good for low frequency decay.

 

I have to say I had an Aleph 3 on loan once and it had no life/ dynamics about it whatsoever. Was very dull - but that was in my system etc....

Jeff

 

Just read the part where you have a laminate floor. Have you a large rug or a few small ones covering it as this will cause really bad reflections. You only have to walk on a fully carpeted room to a hard floor to hear the difference. Know what you mean about stand mounters being faster. I think they do a standmount. Jim.

 

Energy could be mid-bass, could be the bass amplifier...

 

Nice big mechanical capacitors, exactly what the man needs.

If you haven't already done it then experiment by moving the speakers by couple of inch increments nearer to the back wall. Also 5deg changes in toe in. It is like turning the lens on a camera. If it losses definition and clarity bring them further out.

Don't add anymore storage medium, lossy or not. Speakers speak in a box (your room). It is bad enough having wadding and lossy crap in the speaker without it in the room as well! If I wasn't going to get loads of stick I would say take all that lossy storage medium out of your speakers as well, so I won't

Richard

 

Richard either you are a serious wind-up or you know ABSOLUTELY nothing about what you are speaking. Either way it seems unfair to inflict your silly comments on someone genuinely searching for good advice.

Never mind the comment about 'mechanical capacitors', the speakers are F'ing open baffle!

I suppose I should not be surprised you are not familiar with the work of Mr. Linkwitz.

 

Linkwitz says the Orions must be at least 1.20 m from the front wall, 1 m minimum for any open baffle, my Schallwands are 1.10 m, the best compromise I could manage...

Also, I use a subwoofer to add punch and extension, your speakers with such a small open baffle probably need help there too...

 

Being open baffle will still mean that they are affected by boundary walls etc....so toeing in and distance to the rear walls will affect the sound.

From the comments made ....only jimbo has suggested the use of rugs [unless I've missed one] ....

use a mirror on the floor ....sit in your listening position and get the tweeters in the mirror, mark the position. repeat for second speaker. Place a rug or rolled blanket etc in this position and see how it affects your sound ...if you like the effect do the same with the side walls [you need an assistant to hold the mirror for this]. You could look at Thorstens dots

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0602/freakazoid.htm


I have not tried this ......but never discount anything!

 

My speaker drivers have violin laquer on, I wonder if it has to do with this C37 thing...

 

I cant give any advice because I've never heard the Linkwitz Orion, and I don't know what ''life and energy'' mean in the context of hifi.

 

:lol:

 

I think i know what he means. Listening to some systems the detail is there but the musicians seem to be plodding along and not enjoying what they are doing. Adding a component or just listening to another system, and it seems as if the musicians have suddenly had a dose of liver salts and really attack their instrument (phew so much energy). Sounds a bit dramatic doesnt it but i have experienced it.

Did a small upgrade to my player that Zanash recommended. That was to put some flashing tape on the inside of the walls and top the cd player. Also i decided to put the little rubber grommits which fell out of the isolation feet of the cd player (they come out damn easy but a right pig to get back in). This improved the mid bass and gave even more detail. I could not believe it. Whether this is a combination of both things i dont know,but another praise for Zanash. Perhaps you could do that Zodiac as it wont cost much and worth a go. Jimbo.

 

I wouldn't want to cover up too many of the surfaces with absorption if Zodiac wants a lively sound. A thick rug in the right place as Zanash described would probably do a lot of good, but elsewhere I would go with diffusers.

Like I said though, I think what Zodiac really needs is some bass traps to add more ‘PRaT’. There would probably be quite a benefit in using both foam and panel type bass traps in such a lively room. Foam in the corners behind the listener and panel bass traps in the corners behind the speakers.

If there was some diffusers behind the speakers they could be placed closer to the wall quite a bit. As I also said before, this type of speaker will have less low frequency interaction with the room placed nearer the rooms corners or boundaries as it is a velocity source.