Advice needed on improving life and energy

First of all thanks for some helpful comments and suggestions!

I suspect the room acoustics first and foremost - they are big speakers and I think the room is a little on the small side for them. I've got a bass peak at around 60-70hz and a suckout around 90-100hz, both of these are around 8db when measured from the listening position. Moving the speakers around doesn't do much in terms of the response, a lot less than with closed box speakers. The sound 'feels' a bit heavy and slow down low, the Orions have fantastic extension, but maybe the slow decay of the low bass notes coupled with a lack of absorbtion of these low frequencies (<100hz) is smearing transients. I'm not an expert in these things but certainly other systems I have heard have more defined shape about the start and end of drums - I would like some more thwack and swagger to the sound.

I have a rug on the floor, the side walls are glass on one side and plasterboard on another.

 

You got it exactly right - I need some more attack and pace they all seem to be a bit spaced out

 

A nice subwoofer might do the trick, have you tried ?

 

Zodiac, transients are inherently high frequency so if it is the start of notes, the sharpness and speed of the mid and high frequencies like on a snare drum, then I think its something diffusers, or to a lesser extent absorption could help. If it is a pace, timing and 'thwack' thing then you are looking at bass traps.

Do you have a budget in mind for whatever solution you choose?

Lowrider, a sub will likely give more room interaction in the bass, unless it takes over from just around 30Hz-40Hz where the sound becomes pressure mode.

 

I would look at the amplification and try EAR. For a start just borrow an EAR preamp and put it in your system for a while to hear the difference. My previous pre was from a "neutral" studio breed, just like Benchmark, a bit matter-of-fact. EAR did just that - injected life and energy.

 

Depends if one uses bass management or not, small open baffle has no deep bass, unless using EQ, wich the Orion apparentely uses, maybe he can play with that...

I was reading a test of the new JAMO, pretty nice clones of the Orions , and they say bass rolls off at 6db, so they use EQ...

 

Well yes, but one could use bass management with the di-poles and gain even more They extend to 20Hz according to Linkwitz, which I can believe with a total of 4x 10” long throw subs and a bit of EQ.

 

Is the thwack / pace / timing not also a factor of the high frequencies, I can imagine if the bass note arrived but the mid / high frequencies were messed up due to reflections then the transient fidelity would be reduced. As the Orions are dipole midrange they will be a high ratio of reflected to direct sound. Maybe some absorbtion would be the key?

Probably I need both high and low frequency absorbtion. What is the key difference between diffusion and absorbtion.

Budget is <£500, preference would be for a DIY solution

 

I don't think I need any more bass the Orions are EQ'd flat to 20hz! What I do need is the bass to be more on/off with less 'bloom'

 

Yes I was thinking about adding a nice Preamp - what are the EAR characteristics that make it useful?

Also has anyone tried sorting out their power delivery to fix this?

 

Doesnt he say more like 40 hz...

If they where EQ'd flat to 20hz, you wouldnt have peaks and deeps...

 

Mechanical capacitors are a complete waste of time and any perceived improvement is like any of these compensation things in life. Whether illness, malfunctioning hi-fi - enter drugs companies, acoustic tampering companies, some cable companies, feeding off your discomfort. Why not apply a little common sense for a change. You have a problem! do not try to *cure* the problem, two wrongs don't make a right. Find the root of the problem. The more complex the solutions are that are applied the more the confusion created, as you haven't got a clue what is at fault. Familiar!!!

Take every item out of the room and re-install the system as simply as possible, one source (your best or most important). Don't introduce *anything* until you get that functioning correctly by position (both you and equipment), mains supply etc. Forget blaming the room, that is where you live, it is your box, all else is subordinate. If the system doesn't function correctly them change items until it does! Filters - damping or energising - are no answer to anything, they just perpetrate the problem, and line people pockets at your discomfort.

Kill as many capacitors as you possibly can, be they electronic or mechanical they are all evil and only trick you into perceiving benefit.

Richard

 

If you follow that advice then you are curing the problem

 

I don't agree with you at all . When you listen to your hifi or any sound source you are not listening to that sound source only - you are listening to the combination of that sound source and the environment it is in. The logical thing to do is to minimise any negative effects of the environment on the sound source whether they are the time or amplitude domains. Only then will you truly hear the sound source.

 

I have changed my mind, Richard is right. Remove all the capacitors you can. Start with the ones in your crossovers, that will stop your discomfort and improve the sound a great deal. Next, remove any screws that are in your equipment, that will help a great deal as well. If you can afford to, move as far away from either of the earths magnetic polls as well…

Come on Richard, what’s going on? Why are you desperately talking rubbish in an attempt to stop Zodiac from buying acoustic treatments? He can’t buy mine, they are not for sale yet (soon though, I hope)! I made a small joke at your expense, though it was in a very light hearted manner, and now you are stalking me. I suggest you take a few days away from the computer and do something you enjoy and find relaxing, it is very hot these past days. I do apologise for any insult I caused.

 

It's a wind up ...(I hope)

 

Hmm.. well I would remind Richard that any behaviour exhibited by himself reflects somewhat on his company NVA.

I know I sometimes act a bit silly but I would hope that being a long term member of the forum I am granted just a little bit of leeway

 

Wrong again!, you are banned.

 

I can assure you it is not. I have been saying basically the same things for over 30 years, take it or leave it.

The interview on the nva thread explains it quite adequately. Yes speaker crossovers are evil, yes get the capacitors out (as many as possible) but a necessary evil in some ways. The point is you have to use *some* compensation but you use the minimal amount required and even that, as the state of the art progresses, should be removed if possible. Design the drive unit to function correctly not electronically compensate to make up for their problems. Design the case (or lack of) correctly so you don't have to include mechanical filtering (capacitors). You only fill it with wadding 'cos you don't know how to design a good case. The final resort in this stupidity is to fill your room with mechanical capacitors, what is the next step - someone designing them to fit in your ears!!! or perhaps your brains. Cotton wool would be good

Regarding speakers there was a guy pursuing these concepts 10 years ago - now sadly dead - any of you remember rehdeko? Flawed, work still in progress, but looking to design the problems out, not compensate for them!!!!

Is this what this industry is becoming represented by this forum / sad! Tweeks if they work are brilliant, avoidable complication is just that, avoidable!

I will sing with one voice or many voices, it concerns me not. And I am picking on NO individuals I am picking on conceptual nonsense and stupidity.

Richard

 

I saw that i did, misuse of powers, tut tut Dev