Advice needed on improving life and energy

Richard, in all seriousness, what do you mean by 'if the music is right'?

Could you give an example of a 'right' system, what makes it 'right' and why the room is then unimportant?

Also out of curiosity what do you use at home for a system? Including what your room is like.

Tony (WM) also talks about 'music' and I never understand what he means. In my view music is what the performers write and play. The system reproduces sound, no matter what you do to it the music is the same though ones enjoyment of it can change by the way it is presented by the system.

Your comments about 'music is music' make a lot of sense, but its the kind of thing I expect to here from someone completely disinterested in Hi-Fi and is content with a radio from Dixon's.

 

I was going to post a few more pearls of wisdom; but have become a little tired :beer:..........
Later,

Graham.

 

I understand you perfectly well. You seek a room without 'treatments' as you believe that a treated room dilutes musical integrity, and the point I'm making is that you cannot have it, not in the real world.

Richard, the fundamental floor in your argument is that you differentiate between room treatments and room furnishings as having the potential to 'cock things up' musically.
A large, well upholtered sofa will impact on what you hear in a listening room. So will a bass trap. Both are treatments in an absolute sense yet I don't see you telling people to remove soft furnishings, or cover the windows etc.

The logic of your argument would lead to listening in an empty room, since everything placed in the room will change the sound in some way and can therefore be regarded as a sonic treatment.

Richard, what you advocate is absolutism gone mad......and why is it that you accuse everyone who disagrees with you as failing to understand you??

 

..can I just say

A capacitor is a device that stores and returns energy to the system it is part of. A resistor is a device that dissipates energy through conversion (to heat). Acoustically absorbent material does the same; hence it is analogous with a resistor and not a capacitor. Thank you. Please continue.

 

I suppose it would be most analogous to a low-pass filter.

 

Rob you are playing word games for what ever reason. I have said nothing of the sort as quoted in either of your posts and both put a different slant on what I said, and both you say are right. So how can I possibly say you understand me.

Once again I attempt to communicate. I have no interest in absolutism, I have interest in working with reality - what is. A room is what you live in as far as I am concerned and the Hi-Fi should fit in that room. And ANY room can have good music and if the system works you will have that in any room. If music is not your pursuit and you are into sound then you will never be satisfied, as the intellect IS never satified. Pursue your hobby of the unobtainable and let other people listen to music. If that is on a portable radio and it satisfies them so be it.

This I think gets to the crux of the problem as those that pursue the sound suddenly find dissatifaction as they find they have lost the music. So they pursue more sound. The intellect persuades them to treat the accoustics, treat the mains, treat treat treat, search search search. My point is that at that point you are lost, you might as well go back to the start and also make a decision as to what it is that you want, to pursue your desire and get continual dissatisfaction, paranoia, even if it sounds right it could be right-er, it could be missing something. Hi-Fi disease! Or pursue music. Do you know where that word disease comes from? It roots in dis-ease and that is what you perpetually have. If you don't have it today you will have it next week.

Look at all the posts and threads here reflecting this. You can have music in any room, furniture or not, all that effects is the sound. It all in the end comes down to resonant frequency and harmonic pattern - timbre! A loudspeaker is a musical instrument playing within a larger musical instrument - your room.

Get the music right and you either ignore the room or it becomes perfectly obvious what needs to happen. Move this here move that there. I am still a good mate of Paul Messengers and used to be a regular member of the Hi-Fi Choice listening team on the group speaker reviews in the old days. Did he treat his listening room, nah! His room had warts but you adjusted very quickly as the music was right. I remember the objectivist designers coming along and spluttering into insignificance as they tried to cope with the situation. Trying to intellectualise the *sound*, justification gone mad, and none of them ever recognised their products. The subjectivist designer knew straight away when their products were on, unfamiliar room or no unfamiliar room.

Anyway obviously some of this list are bonkers hi-fi nuts and I hope some are bonkers music nuts. The conflict occurs because you think you are doing the same thing.

Richard

 

Once again, sigh! which is relevent function or fact?

Richard

 

Richard, in post 81 I asked some pretty significant questions (especially the first one) that I think if answered would help a lot of people here to actually understand where you are coming from.

Music can be achieved in any room. I agree completely. Does it sound nice? Thats another question completely. If you care about the music not the sound then get notation of the music and forget about even needing a Hi-Fi, knowing the music inside out will bring far more pleasure than the sound created by a particular performance and or Hi-Fi in that case.

For example my granddad used to hum entire symphonies hearing it ALL in his head. He only went back to the piano now and then to check he was in key. He said he never needed to hear a piece of music more than once or twice as he knew how it went. He was banned from the county opera singing contests as he always won and no one else had a chance.

Do you perform any music yourself?

 

I "build" my systems to listen to music, during the building process I listen to the equipment, it is a pain, there is always something wrong, particularly the room, even though I always choose "appropriate" rooms, and decorate them with a music first approach...

I always get good enough results with just nice looking and confortable furniture, every time I tried EQ, I had to step back, as music lost fun...

 

Exhale away.

The proper comparison to draw is desired function. In the case of acoustically absorbent material the desired function is the dissipation of one (unwanted) energy to another. This is analogous with the function of a resistor.

A capacitor has impedance, so to does acoustically absorbent material. This is just pointing to a fact. You have things arse about tit.

 

The room is the single most important factor in getting the best possible sound. Bar, absolutely nothing whatsoever.

The best sound I've ever heard was a pair of Altec speakers (not quite as good as mine) in a really great sounding room.

Mine on the other hand, sound average - a lot of people on the forum get better sounds in their houses. Its the room, room , room, room , roomy room room room.

no, other products wouldnt make it sound better - I've had loads of kit in here. It IS the room, and it always will be.

 

Room/speaker interaction the single most over ridding factor to a quality sound. May I suggest having some one measure the room and discuss with you the best options on how to proceed after.

 

Some of you guys just don't 'get it'. To me my system plays music beautifully, it really conveys the emotion of the musicians and what the musicians were trying to achieve. As for tonality, spatiality, even respnse, headroom and all that bollocks I haven't a clue. There may be systems that 'sound' bettet than mine in hi-fi terms that cost less but I find them uninvolving. Similarly I have heard some horrendously expensive gear failing to communicate with me on an emotional level like mine does.
An example of this is with drumming, the 'timing' may 'sound' perfect to you but it can sound like a metronome rather than a drummer to me.

 

Not quite, I am with WM in this, it is the room/speaker interaction...

I had/heard good music in small rooms and lousy sound in big/good rooms, you have to pick the right speakers for your room, the right amplifier for your speakers, then you can hear nice music...

 

Hi Lowrider,

I agree, and yet don't.

I think speakers all sound different - but pick the lousiest sounding room you can imagine - say a bathroom, or the cupboard under the stairs.. and you can spend any budget that you like, it won't sound very good.

People walking into dealer dem rooms (that sound great) and hearing kit (that sounds amazing) has led to thousands of sales of equipment that isn't categorically better..... and thousands of people thinking ''it doesnt sound as good at my house as it does in the shop''

I've done it many times myself.

 

For the bathroom I use a Tivoli, sounds very good indeed...

 

That doesn't mean it is not having an effect on how much you enjoy the system, it just means you don't stick labels on what you are listening for!

Room treatments are not all about accuracy. I started off my search looking for greater accuracy and measured performance for my home studio and tried a number of different room treatment methods. However, while I was looking for increased accuracy to begin with… when I found the ones I am using now I was absolutely flawed at how much better it all sounded! It didn't just sound and measure more accurate, it sounded more enjoyable, more musical, it was just better… it was a more convincing illusion.

I suppose what I am getting at is that while measured performance does not necessarily translate to better sound, it also does not exclude it. Just because its based on well founded physics does not mean it won't sound musical.

Lowrider, BN, I would agree that it is the interaction between room and speaker. The room can not 'sound' without a speaker! You can help (or have to) the situation from both ends to get good sound.

 

I'm fortunate in that my system can fill my whole (modestly sized) house with music no problem...

 

I'm unfortunate in that my children can fill my whole house with noise no problem.... Sometimes makes the quality of my hifi somewhat irrelevant, as I can't hear it.

Still, they convey emotion extremely well, certainly have plenty of pace, and occasionally (but by no means often) have rhythm and timing. What's more they complement my huge 70's speakers, as I like to dress them in retro clothes as if they were little dolls and I was a little girl, which happily I ain't .

 

Actually in Riga I dont need extra systems, as the AP is around the living room, no corridors...



In Cascais I have a corridor and many doors between the living room and the bed room, so I bought the Tivoli, wich is also very usefull in the garden...