All the nines..

I didn't know whether to post this at the DIY section..

I've been looking into building some interconnects and been looking into topology etc.

In my quest I decided to ask my Mother-in-law (who is a jeweller) if she could get hold of any '4 nines' silver wire. That's 9.999% pure silver (apologies to my grandmother at the back holding the egg).

She spoke to her silver supplier and came back with an interesting point. There are 2 types of silver allowable for sale in this country. They are:

Sterling Silver. Which contains about 953ppt (9.53%)

Brittania Silver. This contains 999ppt. Which is 9.99% pure (3 Nines Silver).

The exception with hallmarking comes when silver is too light to be halmarked in the case of wire, however the quantity of percentage silver cannot be quantified.

So, how the hell can companies which seem to be the majority of Hi-Fi companies (Try searching google for 4n silver) claim to be selling four nines silver..

Anyone?

 

I dont know mate! - its probably cobblers...!


A few sources of silver wire if you want to make some interconnects up.


BTW - www.hificollective.co.uk sell it at about £8 p/m.

www.emporium.dircon.co.uk about £15 p/m

and of course Maplin do the shark silver cable, just add plugs.

 

Did you mean 95.3% and 99.9% ?

 

dont know about legality of selling, i imagine that may be restricted to the jewelery trade?
Apparently silver can only be reliably measured to 99.99% purity, not sure why

 

Being a chemist by training; I was interested and had a look. Here's a bit from Crowne Mint (a US company, not to be confused with the Royal Mint):

"The purity rate for silver bars and medallions provided by the Crowne Mint is .999 fine. This is a higher grade of purity than collectible silver coins, which are typically 90% fine, or Sterling Silver, which is 92.5% fine.
The traditional "Spot Price" for silver traded on the commodities markets fluctuates in accordance with world market pressures and constitutes the buying and selling rate for silver in minimum blocks of 5,000-ounce quantities. Spot price does not include charges for brokerage fees, shipping and delivery costs, refining for purity upgrade, dies, fabrication and minting, polishing, finishing, insurance, vaulting, administration costs, etc.

Commercially pure silver, that which is acceptable for NYMEX/COMEX contract deliveries, is at least .999 fine silver. For some applications, .9999 fine silver is required and is usually sold at a premium due to the extra refining that is required to manufacture it.

The difference between silver that is 99.9% pure and silver that is 99.99% pure is generally that there is a slight bit more copper in the 99.9% silver. From a practical point of view, fabricators set up processes to be optimized for certain purity standards since even .01% less or more silver can make a big difference in how the metal reacts to heat and pressure in the minting process.

Generally, when the mint purchases .999 fine silver, it arrives at the mint somewhere in the .9993 to .9999 range. The mint must actually calculate the amount of copper needed to add to each large industrial bar in the melting process - based on its weight and purity - to bring the fineness to .9993 - the fineness for which the mint's processes are set up. It is possible to purchase .9999 fine silver that is guaranteed to that fineness and even higher .99999 fine silver. These are for specific applications and require a very high premium. They are simply not practical for investment grade silver rounds and bars. "

Thus, it appears that it is possible to get highly pure silver, but that, for most purposes, it's simply not worth it. It may be a bit like "pure alcohol". Ethanol and water form an azeotropic mixture at the high 90s % ethanol (that is, they boil off together as if they were a single liquid). They simply cannot be separated by distillation, and special drying techniques are needed to get rid of most of that water (it's impossible to get rid of it all). As a result, the azeotropic mixture, with its little bit of water, is accepted for most purposes as pure ethanol.

 

It's pure and simple marketing crap and booboo. Figures companies quote are almost always unreliable: from metal purity to amp wattages! If they can include in the product box some kind of proof to their claim they might be able to sell more of their product. But even that wont't be a guarantee you'll be satisfied with its ultimate performance. Even if it only has one 9, but sounds heaven to your ears already, then that's the deal.


regards

 

Re: Re: All the nines..

Sorry, yes.

PPT meaning Parts Per Thousand.

Thanks for the replies. I think I'm going to see what my mother-in-law can 'realistically' obtain.

I would believe that it would be possible to produce 4 nines silver, however I'd question why this level of purity would be needed. Perhaps in electonic measurement systems of extremely high accuracy. I don't think my ears are that sensitive, especially considering to all the music I go out to see.

 

Tones

Also being an ex Chemist, we used to dry out Ethanol with sodium. It had to be changed every few weeks as it goes crusty (Sodium Hydroxide). Great fun disposing of the crusty sodium by throwing it in the local harbour. That is until it perferated the ear drums of a diver

 

Naughty boys! Nowadays HSE would have a field day with this. You should see the paperwork we have to carry out for conducting even the simplest of experiments. COSHH and risk assessments are the bain of my life!

You could probably use molecular seive to dry ethanol, too.

Robbo

 

Woohoo! Hifi-loving chemists of the world unite! We should have a special badge or something Agree re COSHH assessments btw, biggest waste of time ever - just what is the point of writing "flammable, irritant" every time you pick up a bottle of ether?

 

Of coarse you can have 7 nines silver, the same way you can have good sounding bell wire with nice audesa plugs on it,
Maybe some smart arse decidied he'd call it that as his/they company uses the continious casting method
Besides why is every one hung up on silver?, some of the very best cables don't use it, again more intrinsic waves of apathy flow over the threads, more muppetry at work possibly?, time for .................AMS to go work

 

Well it's for DIY isn't it? The act of putting your own hair brained schemes into practice under the belief that you can cream the pro's for pennies!!

And what's more it baffles the missus and keeps you in the garage out of the way.

 

WM's made a living out of it!!

 

Copied from the Web site of Brothers Cables
www.brothers.nildram.co.uk

What purity of silver wire should be used?

The silver wires we use are .999 pure (Three 9).
This is the best that is readily available. We order our silver directly from the refinery in large quantities. This "Three 9" grade of silver is ultra-pure the best that is readily available. (So this means that less than 1 Parts in every 1000 could be a impurity)
NOTE: Many companies incorrectly refer to silver wire purity. Three 9 silver or .999 silver is the mathematical equivalent of 99.9%. Three 9 silver is the Ultra-Pure grade silver production.
The next step up in grade is Four 9 silver or .9999, which is mathematically equivalent to 99.99%. (this means that less than 1 part in every 10,000 can contain a impurity)
The highest grade of silver that man can make commercially is Five 9 silver or .99999, which is mathematically equivalent to 99.999%. (Five 9 silver is an incredibly difficult purity to manufacture, and requires extremely precise manufacturing methods and very costly equipment. Expect to pay 30-200 times more for this Hyper-pure silver; if indeed you can even find it.)
(Being this pure everything that comes in contact with it will contaminate the purity 'this means that less than 1 part in every 100,000 can contain a impurity')

The error you will come across is manufacturers stating that their silver is Three 9 silver and refer to it as being 99.999%, or even more misleading is incorrectly stating that their Four 9 silver (.9999) is actually 99.9999%. Nothing could be further than the truth! 99.9999% would be the same mathematically as .999999, which is actually Six 9 silver!
The technology to make "real" Six 9 (.999999) silver is not here yet. If it were, it would cost over 200-800 times the cost of Three 9 (.999) silver.
Can you see how easily people can be mislead by the grade of the silver?
Brothers has always used and sold Three 9 (.999) Ultra Pure Grade Silver. We have the Bullion Stamp on file to prove this fact.

This seems to back up what Tones was saying

Mike