Amplifier Advice Sought - Wilson Benesch Curves

Hello,


Any advice on the following would be great:


Am planning on buying some second hand Wilson Benesch Curves (87db, 6ohms nominal 4ohms minimum) and would like to pair with tube amplification or possibly a hybrid combination.

My budget for amplification is lower than the cost of the speakers. I have around £1,700 and am looking to buy second hand / ex-dem.

I never listen at loud volumes and listen to alot of acoustic music with some rock.
I am looking to buy a fairly cheap CD transport for use with a chord DAC 64 (When I have found one 2nd hand).

I have heard the curves with audionet and was really impressed. I have no experience with tubes and it is a long time since I heard a valve based amplifier but I remember being struck by the sound and how "real" and 3 dimensional it was.


I would like to try a passive pre amp if it would be compatible with my proposed setup options and have been looking at the following relatively cheap but supposed great performers:

- promitheus TVC (Supposedly comparable and similar in operation to the Music First passive pre?)

- Placette Remote Control


These are some of the power amplifiers that I have seen second hand that are within budget and appear to have had plenty of good comments by folk on forums:

Conrad-Johnson premier 11a - 70W p/c

Audio Research VS55 - 55W p/c (Is this too little power?)

Audio Research VS110 (Right on the edge of my budget)

Graaf 50/50 - 50W p/c

Rogue Audio ST90 - 90W p/c

Rogue Audio M-120 - 120W p/c (Have heard they sound good but some folk say unreliable?)

Vincent T100 - Hybrid mono blocks 100 W p/c



As you can probably tell I have very little knowledge and experience in hi-fi. I have spent alot of time reading through magazines and reading forums etc online. My ideas above may be wholly uncompatible but that is why I am posting to get some advise from folks that have experience of these products or others like them.


Many thanks in advance

 

Chord and WB tend IME toward the leaner brighter end of the hifi spectrum (WBs old demos with Chord were always dreadful IMO), perhaps tubes might add that hint of warmth and offer the 'real' sound you're after. Depends on the tubes. Shouldn't think any of the amps mentioned would have any probs driving the speakers though headbanging levels may cause the lowest powered some stress. Another option. Consider an ex-dem Wadia, Levinson or Resolution Audio Opus 21 and use the internal volume control initially. When you can afford it add a good pre. I reckon these players would offer a more organic presentation than the Chord with a cheap transport.

 

Hello defride,


Thank you for your reply.

I had assumed (maybe wrongly it would appear) that Wilson Benesch and Chord were a good match due to the fact that they were used together. That coupled with the fact that the DAC 64 has had great reviews and write ups on forums was why I had singled it out as a possible purchase.

Thanks for your suggestions I shall find out more info on them. Would you avoid the passive pre's? The promitheus TVC is very reasonable and seems to have many devout followers. I admit that I am drawn by reports of its simplicity and transparency.

Is it a widely held opinion the Chord - WB poor match?

Do you have any experience with any of the amps I have mentioned? I see there are some prima luna mono blocks on ebay (prologue 6's) I forgot to add prima luna 6's and 7's mono blocks to the list above as a possible purchase.

I am very interested in the Conrad-Johnson premier 11a power amp also as I have found one second hand at what seems like a fair price. Does anyone who may read this have any experiences to share with me of this amp? I guess it will be around 10 years old but I don't know how long these things will last and whether it is still a worthy investment.


Many thanks in advance for any replies...

 

Hi Woodnut,

Based on your comments re a tube system I'd be surprised if you'd enjoy an all Chord system. Hard and clinical is my experience. Loads of detail but no emotion. Don't get me wrong though, a Dac64 might be successfully intergrated into a system that works well. I'd never heard a DCS cd based system before that sounded good until last w/e's shows. A couple of dealers showed by proper set up and system matching that a DCS cdp could sound wonderful. Trouble is just reading a review you'll find it difficult to tell whether a product will work in your system. I'd guess the Dac64 would work better with the WBs via a tube amp than most SS's but I've no experience.

I would imagine that the WBs would benefit from a fantastic signal. I think you'd enjoy a Levinson 39, Wadia 301 or an RA Opus 21 all knocking around for under £2k. All very musical. No experience of passive pre's myself but dealers I've spoken to haven't been complementary, lacking in dynamics in the context of my system, Wadia/Chapter, again it comes down to system matching.

I've only heard good things about the CJ, AR and Rouge amps. I'd be tempted by the 120s, certainly haven't heard of any reliability issues. Until you try though you'll never know.

 

Considering that want a decent amplifier at a decent price my suggestion is that you try some models from Panasonic. You can get a wide range of choice at comparable prices.

 

It's not a universally-held opinion. Personally I'd point a finger at WB speakers rather than Chord electronics.

What turns me off about Chord electronics is the bling factor - I sense that technically they are fine, but who knows how much of the cost is taken up by fancy feet and so forth?

 

For what it's worth i've previously run a dac 64 through valves in my system and the valves did nothing to ameliorate the dac's overly forward and bright presentation.

 

I know the bel canto ref 1000's work very well with wilson benesch speakers. You should be able to find a second hand pair within budget.

 

I owned Wilson Benesch Arcs for over 2 years. In my experience Wilson Benesch speakers are quite explicit and need careful amp partnering. I wouldn't even consider Chord- the partnership would strip paint!

I realise WB distribute the Audionet range - but on several listens I also found that partnership to be too thin, bright and dry.

Bel Canto makes for quite a nice synergy, as does Densen.
Basically you need an amplifier with some degree of warmth and good control in the bass (those tactic drivers are quite current hungry).

The best match I ever heard (by some degree) was my Karan KA I 180, used examples come up from time to time at around £2k.

 

this the problems you mention?

http://www.audioreview.com/cat/ampl...audio/m-120-monoblock/PRD_116114_1583crx.aspx

maybe the ST90 then!

My premier 11a set a valve on fire once (dont have the amp anymore) but it sounded really good.

Heard of GRAAF having a few reliability problems too.

The ST90 might be a good bet.

 

* nb the st90 (ive just read) is 45w triode, 90w ultralinear. with 4 x kt88 that sounds about right.

what have you seen it advertised for? (£)

 

in that kind of price range, i would be looking at the same kind of amps i have to match the focal 1007be's. E.g. amps with a clean, smooth sound, that will pair off well against the speakers clean characteristics.

Accuphase work stunningly with the focals and i suspect would do the same with the WB's, McIntosh also working looking at, as well as perhaps some of the meridian gear (im not too familiar with the new numbering system)

 

Hello,

Many thanks for all you replies. I think I will give the DAC 64 a miss on account of all of your advice. I would like to use a DAC - Transport combination as it always seems like it is the transport that breaks after a while on CD players and that way I could use a relatively cheap transport and not worry about it breaking down the line.

Any suggestions for alternate DAC's would be great? Benchmark? Bel Canto?

I really fancied the Conrad Johnson Premier 11a but at £1300 for something I haven't heard I deemed it a bit too risky. Plus it was going on 10 years old.


I saw the ST90 advertised for around £1000 on ebay. I couldnt find much info on it or any reports so was worried it might be as unreliable as the M-120's.

The reports of problems on the Rogue Audio M-120 were from the audioreview.com and were enough to put me off.

The Mcintosh MC75 sounded like it would have been a good one to listen to but it seems a bit out of budget and couldn't find any second hand or ex dem.

Since I last posted here I have committed to buy some Sheng Ya (Vincent) Mono blocks that appeared to me last night and seemed too reasonable to pass up on. I am hoping they will have the power and the warmth for the curves due to their hybrid design. If they don't work out or if later I want to change I'm hoping I won't loose too much money on the venture.

I'm not sure what pre I should be looking to run ith the Vincent Mono's? The obvious choice I suppose would be the matching pre that retails around £750. But could I do alot better second hand for around £700? The Vincent pre is a hybrid design I think like the Mono's themselves. Would it be advisable to go for an all valve preamp or maybe even a simple passive like those mentioned before?


Many thanks

 

Try a TVC if you can.

 

I use a TVC with Rogue ST90. I hope the above hasn't jinxed it. I'll come looking for you Chris :gatling::gary:

 

Any TVC recommendations?

The promitheus TVC and the Music First are the two I have heard the most about.

 

Add Django to that list.

 

I think you'll struggle to get a Music First for £750, but a little bit more should get you a Mk1 (what they are now calling the 'classic' I think). I had one for a long time, only got rid to upgrade to MkII, and both were/are fantastic.

In all honesty, the MkI is just as good as the MkII in terms of performance - the MkII just has better facilities (that I really wanted) in terms of dual outputs and remote control.

Only caveat I could possibly note is that I've run these passive preamps in a system with high sensitivity speakers, where gain is definitely not a requirement. I'm not saying that a passive pre would be unsuited to a low/mid sensitivity speaker, just that I don't know from personal experience. Others here may have better insight.

 

I know the vincent monoblocks, Julian has a pair. He's not here much these days.

I like them, with lots of clean power - solid state with a warm tone. The biggest transformers you've ever seen in them too.

He ran his with a DAC with an inbuilt volume control, therefore bypassing the pre altogether. If you have no record player this is a good call I think.

Instead of a transport he used a Squeezebox. You could use a transport if you wanted of course.

Can't remember the exact model of dac, although it was very nice. Black, shiny, built like a tank - anyone remember?

 

Was it this?



or this?