amplifier

hello...
What would be a good choice for an amplifier in the £500 range , that has phono inputs,two sets of speaker inputs , and preferably a loudness button...or failing that excellent bass response?.Im currently using a marantz pm7200.Whilst its overall sound is nice , i do feel it fails in the volume and bass "punch"department.I know its rated at 95watts into 8ohms , however it doesnt seem to offer the "punch" that my old pioneer sa700 or even nad c320bee offers.Ive just bought some epos 12.2 speakers and am very pleased with the sound over my MA b2s.There is much more seperation and i hear sounds that couldnt be heard with the b2s.I do feel now though that i could get more out of the epos 12.2s with a "better" amp.Any suggestions or comments would be welcome.
tia
ellison

 

You'll have to go some to beat the bass capabilities of the 7200 without spending a wad. It certainly has deeper and more pronounced bass than the Nad Bee. If you miss bass slam at low volumes you'll be in the same boat I am. The only way to get it without a loudness button is to use sensitive speakers and a valve amp so I'm told. Cheaper amps still have these loudness buttons but they'll sound inferior to your current amp when you turn the volume higher. Depends what you want. A lot of the Jap brands still manufacture solid state amplifiers with loudness circuits but they are usually sub £250 and so not exactly audiophile standard. Try Denon or Pioneer. Sony, Yamaha and Kenwood also make lower-priced amps with loudness.

 

Around that price I think Cyrus intergradeds are very good. Second-hand you could get something like a Cyrus 7 and a PSX-R or maybe a SmartPower and aCA7.5 preamp or maybe a Cyrus 8... My advice would be to look on eBay.

Another (more interesting?) option is to try some of the Chinese offerings. In my experience you get far better sound and build for your money, although you have to send it back to China if you want to use the warranty. Look on www.cattylink.com or again eBay. If you use Cattylink mention me as I have used them before and they will take care of you.

 

Thanks for replies.My last two "vintage"amplifiers had loudness buttons (pioneer sa700 and marantz 1050) , and i honestly didnt notice any degredation of sound at higher volumes.The pioneer amp rated at 100rms (i believe) seemed much more louder and punchier than the marantz.I am thinking of getting an earlier model amp.I would like another sa700 as i was very happy with that until it gave up the ghost.The chinese link seems intresting.I know that nad stuff is currently assembled in china,so i dont see a problem with chinese build quality.Thanks again for comments.
ellisonwales

 

Maybe what you really want is a subwoofer.

You shouldn't need a loudness button at the level of kit you are at. AFAIK a loudness button generally puts a smiley face EQ on. If you need that to make it sound good then there is something seriously wrong... or you have odd taste (no offence!)

 

I probably have slightly odd taste , coupled with my reminiscence of my older gear.I do like to have plenty of tone and volume at hand.Out of curiosity , how would i wire a subwoofer up to the pm7200?.I currently have the epos 12.2s biwired using both sets of speaker posts on the amp.
tia
ellison

 

If its an active sub (which most are) connect the sub to your cassete deck output, I believe the Marantz should have two, one for MD/CDRW and one for a cassete so you should one one spare.

 

no you need preouts for an active subs- the tape outs are at a fixed level. i do have a Plinius 8100 for sale for around the £500 mark (was £1500) that has preouts. Check the classifieds section. It doesn't have any tonal adjustment though (if you look at hifi shops no high end amps have tone or loudness functions- theres been a thread about this recently)

 

I forgot about that, when I had an active sub I had to adjust the bass level every time I wanted to change the volume becuase I had to connect it to the tape outs.

 

You can get ones that accept speaker level input as well. You would have to run one of the lines to the sub and then to the speakers. Or run both but its probably hard to get that much wire into the back on the subs terminals! I have not heard of people complaining of the sub degrading the signal in any way so you should be fine.

I'm not sure if they do, but if the sub filters off the low end so your main speakers don?t work so hard, be sure to pass the woofers cables through the amp, not the tweeters.

Or of course you can run bi-wire from one set of terminals on the amp and use the others for the sub. I don't think that Marantz actually has two amps inside (one for each speaker set) so its not really any different connecting both tweeters and woofers to one terminal on the back. This would be my choice. In fact I would go single wire 'cos unless bi-ampimg , there is very little to gain from bi-wiring IMO.

 

Not enough speaker terminals? Use piggy-backed banana plugs

Arcam amps have decent tone controls. A slightly used A85 might be a good bet.

 

Cyrus amps lack for power due to simple physical limitations.

If you want huge power from a £500 integrated there's no better place for your money than an NAD C372. No phono stage though. The other good option is the Rotel RA-1062.

However, a second-hand high-end amp, like rory's plinius or an NAD S300, will destroy these, and without resorting to tone controls or the like. If you're bass-light, move your speakers.

 

Thank you all for very informative replies.There is much food for thought here.The plinius seems very nice , however im sort of scared taking the plunge of an amp with no tone control.I know the high end stuff go that route but i guess everything else used with it should be high end too and most of my stuff..the speakers cd player etc are low end.Perhaps im wrong in thinking that way.I agree with the biwiring possibly having a placebo effect...though i could have sworn that one 2.5 cable i used had a "bassier" sound than another 2.5 cable (different brand).The rotel 1060 seems to fit the bill.I just need to decide whther there will be a sound improvement over the marantz.Would be grateful of any persons comments who has heard these two in action.
tia
ellison

 

It was the rotel 1062, not the 1060 that was being recommended. And I'd give that a vote also. I had a home demo of the 1062 and decided that it was bass-heavy but that seems to suit you.

Your comment that improvements downstream, in the amp and speakers, nat show up defects in the cd player is probably true. But open your ears for some delightful surprise by trying out some better cdp. It might change much!

 

Easy answer for me. You get one of these:



From here

I did and they sound a million dollars. Met with lots of praise at a recent bake-off.

 

Wow that site seems pretty cheap, seems to be audiophile products without the usual 100%+ proifit margins.

Which version do you have? I would imagine the 22w version would sound iffy with rock type music.

 

I have the MC-7R pre-amp, though not Edenlake, but the OEM Ming Da one and its truly fantastic for the price. I know some places in America were selling them for around $1,600. This is what I meant by the 'Chinese' option, but it look like some people are importing them for you and not adding the usual 200% mark up. Very nice!

There seems to be a popularity in the Chinese market for valves, but there are also some pretty hefty transistor and even hybrid valve/transistor amps to be had too.

 

ditton...
Thanks for the correction.It was the rotel 1062 i meant.As far as getting better gear , i am basically limited to my room size and layout.Speakers have to be bookshelf , and are wall mounted.I believe (at present anyway) that i wont get much better than the epos 12.2s.So im basically revolving everything around them at the moment.I have a nad c542 player , which i believe is good enough for those speakers.A better cd player would probably nessesitate better speakers to fully appreciate it and and as i say im limited in my choice (they have to be bookshelf due to size and layout of room).So im thinking that probably the logical upgrade would be an amplifier.It may be imagination but i find the marantz seems to get "quieter" the longer i play it, and the volume creeps up.Its in no way the same league as even my nad c320bee 50 watt for volume.I must admit i dont use the class a on the marantz very often because of the heat.I guess that its been vigourously tested though so i may use that over the next few weeks.The more i read of the rotel though ,seems to draw me to it.It has phono input , a tone of sorts and although rated at 60 watts seems to have plenty of power.Most of the reviews seem to support it being bassy too.

lordsummit....
Thats a very nice looking amp.I guess it would save on heating bills too .
How does tube amp sounds compare to solid state in hifi?.My only experience of valve amps is playing guitar through them.I owned a vox ac30 amp for about 5 years and the volume on that put many a 100watt solid state amps to shame.I see that the vavlves are guaranteed for 90 days , though (if guitar amps are anything to go by) can last years.The valves seem very cheap to replace to.I am totally ignorant of a valve amp hifi sound though.Just how good are they? and would you happen to have any good links that maybe reviews valve versus solid state so to speak.
tia
ellison

 

I dont really know where to start. I suppose a good place is the similarities/differences?

1) valve amps in hifi just like with guitars dont go all 'glarey' when you push them too hard.
2) the power in watts doesnt mean a lot, 20w plus is enough for most speakers. My valve amp is just 8w.
3) Valves in hifi's can be cheap like EL34's, or can be much more expensive than in a guitar amp, like the 300B which is 70 quid each for a cheap make. The type of valve makes a big difference to what the amp sounds like.
4) if you find cd's hard to listen to, some valve amps take the edge off things.
5) just like your AC30 the valves in most amps will last a couple of years or so at 2 hours or so use per day.
6) for a valve amp in your budget you'd be looking at a kit (made for you by a proffessional), second hand, or a less well known make brand new imported from somewhere like china. All 3 will get you a cracking amp.

You could get a decent valve hifi amp for 500 pounds, but you'd need to give up on some of the things you were looking for - like tone controls and such.

I wouldnt personally value any article that said whether valve amps were better or worse than solid state... it's just a type of product that is worth hearing to see if you like.

 

Thank you bottleneck for that very informative post.Im not particularly bothered about tone controls ..as long as decent bass/treble is supplied from the unit .I guess the tone controls are just a "safeguard" for me.I know that speakers are the main componet for a better bass sound , but i have to work around the epos 12.2 i have.I also have MAb2s upstairs.These are probably bassier but its a more boomy sound and the overall sound is not as detailed (imo)as the epos.I guess im trying to get blood out of a stone here
Id love to hear a valve amp though,as the pics and comments have aroused my intrest.
ellison