Another SACD vs DVDA thread with a difference.

This one is strictly for those who like to ask why. If you think you could hear differences btw SACD, DVDA and CD but wonder if they are measureable maybe this is why. Judging by the papers the author have wrote she should know a bit about sounds and waves forms.

What is the comment of the forum?

Link to C. Tham article.

 

Well I have been on about digital clipping for a couple of years now on this forum and others.

It is the reason CD sounds edgy no question. Take a disc that doesn't clip (you know, the ones that sound quiet and you need to turn up) and it will transcend most people's opinions of CD as a medium.

Take 90% of CD's and they are edgy. It's clipping. A good example is Ray of Light by Madonna. The intro to the opening track is superb, mastered at the right level(near to but not exceeding digital zero)

As soon as the track moves up a gear, the levels go into the red and compression sets in. You can clearly hear it. Put vinyl on and it doesn't happen. Same with SACD.

So it's nice to see articles appearing that highlight the problem. Sadly, I don't think the average mastering engineers could give two tosses.

 

Yep I agree with Merlin (for perhaps the first time ever ). Some of the reason for this was definately the result of CD jukeboxes and the like, if you up the level on the CD it sounds 'better' when compaired to quieter offerings on the same jukebox, of course eventually everyone does it with the result that most CD's are recorded with peaks at 0db rather than -6db which was initially the case, and many even have louder segments clipped to give a 'louder' sound.

Maybe with SACD being launched as an 'audiophile' format they have seen sense. Whether SACD would sound better than CD using none clipped CD's is more open to debate. (I've still to hear a SACD player to come close to my CD player).

 

Jeez, it's scary that I find myself agreeing with Merlin nowadays too..

There are articles like this about. Stereophile [JA] did one PROVING why the CD layer on some hybrid disc was dodgy, so making comparison meaningless. Here is another one:

http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/articles/8A133F52D0FD71AB86256C2E005DAF1C

Still, if you listen to Krall, you want poking with a stick anyway.

These guys should welcome us all too:

http://www.loudnessrace.net/

 

Like basically every classical CD ever recorded then. In general (notwithstanding the much greater dynamic range) classical music is encoded at a far lower level than pop - maybe this is why I've always been perfectly happy with CD as a medium...

 

Glad to see you are able to agree with me when I am being serious

Pete you are right, although many of the classical discs I owned (not many to be honest) exhibited digital clipping particularly on crescendos and some piano work.

But IME remove the clipping and you lose that hard edge that makes Cd what it is.

 

Hi,

I'm with Micheal (Merlin) as well.

I remember Paul Miller wrote a piece about his in HiFI Choice some years ago. He found a large number did have levels that went into the red.

I have done this as well on a Pioneer cd recorder. The one I have is a twin deck one, where you can put a blank in one side & the source cd in the other. It has vu meters. In a number of cases the levels are near or just past 0db. You can adjust the levels up or down so you can record levels well into the red or well below it. I'm sure the ones that are well into the red offer an edgy sound.

SCIDB