Any of you chaps dealt with chinese-hifi.co.uk?

Not encouraging any tax evasion in any way, and completely out of my hands, but i have had several consignments from the far east that have slipped through the net maybe because they were marked "gift" although i would have thought HMC&E must be wise to that.

 

I bet walrus would give you a 10% discount which brings the margin even closer.

 

Does anyone know if the stuff they sell is the real thing, or if it's knock-off?

 

Hi,

If they are selling products otherwise made in china they are selling "originals", however, often the products destined for the domestic chinese do differ from export versions in terms of quality of components and equally often, the maisn voltages are slightly, but significantly off from those required in the UK, US or a number of other countries.

Ciao T

 

Thanks for the reply, 3DSonics.
I understand what you're saying, but if, as you say, products destined for domestic use differ in quality, are you saying that we'll get sent the local product if we use these companies and these companies produce inferior products for their local market, or are you saying we'll be getting a superior product?

What I mean is that I understand the products may differ, but which one am I likely to be receiving. And why is any company producing the same product at varying levels of quality and jeapordising their own image as a result, surely they should have the same QC rules but with different voltages and that's the end of that?

Thanks

 

Yes I find this difficult to contemplate.....just the complexities of changing a production run would prohibit this. singly built units would present no problems. The other point is that to supply an inferior model would damage further sales...not particularly clever approach to marketing. I can appreciate that different home voltages may be a factor, but most voltages are 110 and 230 ish these days which can be easily accomodated this a dual wound primaries. Incidentally isn't china 230vac the same as the UK...I seem to recall my last trip over there being able to operate the stuff I took on there mains.

I'm not saying that your mistaken as I have no evidence either way... just its a little odd. Certainly if you are buying say a chinese built amp in a third country ie germany its not going to be a unit built for the home market ....? But if you were buying from a dealer in china you may get a unit originally destined for their home market.

Like most things in this world you pay for what you get......

 

I agree totally on this. I pay for a middle man in the UK to become fat off his profits. And lo and behold, I get the same product and a wealthy middle man.
There seems to be a huge, huge respect for the current wave of Chinese audio around, both on audiophile forums (where the real listeners are) and in the press. There's no doubt that Eastsound/Shanling/Ming Da et al are terrific products, and if you check the prices that everywhere else is paying, they're a real bargain too. But in the UK, there's an inevitable result that the authorised dealers can stick the prices up to whatever level will discourage us from buying these strange Chinese names and stick with the names we know best.

If I'm going to take a chance on one of these Chinese products, I need it to be worthwhile. Which is why I'm looking at importing through these channels instead of getting someone else to do it for me and put his markup on that as well as the price of the product too.

As long as those Shanlings are actual Shanlings, then I'm happy enough to absorb the other risks associated (low levels of support from the retailer, no support from the manufacturer.)

 

I agree too, you take your chance and if the shipment goes without any damage then you can get a real bargain. Dealers are good for one thing and that is you can go along and listen to the equipment. They do have to make a living like all of us but not to the extent that they charge sky high prices. Jim.

 

Hi,

Examples of this which I know for sure:

I had a set of domestic Shanling Monoblock Amplifiers obtained through grey imports. They where blowing out the 6SL7's (wrong mainsvoltage - these are run at absolute limits as is with the nominal mains voltage) and inside I found different passive components, especially in the area of coupling capaictors and supply capacitor bypass (Wima vs. MIT PPFF).

A grey set of Import Shanling CD T-100 which where blowing up mains transformers had, when fixing them, also generic supply filter capacitors around the DAC section in the output coupling, the export version had Elna Cerafine in these positions and Elna for Audio in the output coupling positions.

When RealHi-Fi imported Opera we had re-specified certain passive (well, I did the specifying) using for example Black Gate Cathode bypass capacitors on cathodes and Jensen Copperfoil PIO Coupling Capacitors. The stock components where generic Wima Couplers and Philips Electrolytics.

Several Shanling Products are re-branded MusicHall, these have differences not only in the Printing but also internally.

A number of OEM producters also have superficially identical Products (samde chassis) which have significant differences internally if they are assembled for sale in Germany or in the UK as in each the Importer has taken a large degree of responsibility for the internals of the Products.

As for the complexity in modern assembly, it would be very easy to load a set of different tapes of components into the machine that stuffs the PCB's if you make (say) a batch of 50 Export units and to change back to something else when you make others.

How so? As long as the Chinese customer does not know (and how would he?).

China is 220V. The UK is 240V. Europe is 230V nominally. The US is 117V.

Standard Chinese products often have/had 110/220V Primaries, in recent times manufacturers have introduced transformers which have several 5 and 10V taps on the primary, however as CHina has 220V where voltages are usually low on that mainland china products have their supplies connected as 220V.

Lest the greytailer opened up the Device and changed the tapping (which would require for him to have a service manual to work out which is which) the product would still be 220V.

Ciao T

 

How about the Japanese 'Tuned for the UK' amps, speakers etc. or the TV's that come with SCART for Europe and Component everywhere else or manufacturing speakers in different finishes for different markets. etc. etc.

 

I can confirm that I have talked directly to Opera Consonance, and that the Droplet is available in 3 different options. I'm presently waiting for confirmation about the differences.
Have to say that I'm surprised that the differences exist, but lets see what happens.

 

Is there a "smaller" option, lol?

Lovely sounding player, but no good if you can't get it through the front door!!

Some Chinese manufacturers (well, Ming-Da at least) can provide 240v tapped versions, subject to a waiting period (my SET's took an extra two weeks). Well worth being patient IMO. :MILD:

DT

 

Hi,

I have found during my days of repairing HiFi & TV stuff (including two years at Music & Video Exchange Nottinghill Gate) that usually quite significant differences exist in the gear of large manufacturers (Technics/Panasonic/Sony/Yamaha/Marantz/Philips) depending on the destination country. Often mains transformers are country specific and equally often passive parts vary.

Even "High End" stuff tended to diverge widely.

I remember Kondo Gear imported directly from Japan which had rather generic Nichicon Supply Capacitors compared to the versions available through AN UK where they used Black Gate's throughout. At first my friend suspected fakes, but that was not the case.

So I would be more surprised if a manufacturer shipped the exact same stuff everywhere (though my new Venture will do exactly that - I do intended to introduce some limited quantety series with such nicities as all silver [capacitors, wire, connectors]) than if they didn't.

Ciao T

 

Here's the answer from Consonance, unedited:

"Dear Mike,
The three versions of Droplet are separately for China mainland,Tai Wan and International Trade.
The voltage is different between the two versions for International Trade and China mainland,their prices are the same.
The wooden base ,the stand and the capacitance etc. of the version for Tai Wan are different from other versions.And its price is NT$168,000.

Best regards,

Han Yi"

The implications of that above are that you buy a unit for:
- China
- Tai Wan
- The rest of the world

So as long as you specificy that it's an international version, there should be no difference.

Have to admit that I'm not sure what the exchange rate is or where NT$ are used. Anyone got a good idea?

 

NT$ are used in Taiwan

New Taiwan Dollars IIRC

 

If we're talking about Taiwan dollars, according to FT.com the exchange rate is 1:57 (UK sterling to Taiwan Dollars), meaning that the Taiwanese cost of the unit would be just under £3000. That doesn't sound quite right.

 

well, I've just checked my bloomberg terminal and it appears to be 57:1, so yes, £3000.

Maybe NT$ is the local currency for Taiwanese folk only, and there is a seperate currency for foreign transactions (a bit like renminbi/yuan)

DT

 

Hi,

This would assume of course that chinese Greytailer can get stock directly from the factory and that the factory would supply "international" (or in my preferred parlance "Export") units to the mainland china greytailer.

In fact, the factories have a tendency to cut off any dealers they catch selling outside their agreed sales area, however it is often easy for greytailers to get the goods direct from dealers at significant discounts.

At least in the case of Opera and Shanling (both of which have significant international distribution networks) it would seem unlikely that a mainland China (or HK) dealer could lay their hands on large stocks of international models, so it would seem more reasonable to consider that they sell domestic chinese market products which have or may not have been modified to make them at least safe according to European/US standards and to offer correct voltages for longevity (or not).

Forgive me for saying so, but chances are that what is sold may be claimed to be "international" but is likely to be purchased in bulk from a local mainland china dealer and thus would invariably be a "china domestic market" model, where such differences exist.

Ciao T

 

3D,

I think you missed something whilst reading my thread.
The answer I posted was directly from the manufacturer.
Why complicate matters by dealing with a 3rd party who's going to take their own cut and as you rightly state, may well not get the correct version?

My thoughts were to consider buying directly from the manufacturer.

 

The NT$ is the offical currency I can even pay in NT$ on Paypal.

The price is probably something to do with the 'interesting' relationship between China and Taiwan.

If you do ask the 'factory' about sales they'll probably point you to http://www.aliumaudio.com which is what happened when I asked about amps a year or so back.