Any Recommendations?

I need speaker cable (bi-wire or two single runs) that can be run up to a possible 8m....

i currently use two 5m runs of DNM reson in biwire formation which will shortly become biamp but i remember reading something about DNM reson not being a great idea over 5m due to the capacitance of it, beyond that length they recommend twin runs.. which would mean id need 4x8m runs per channel.. and that just gets silly expensive.

could i run DNM over 7-8m and get away with it? or does anyone have any other suggestions.

my reasons for wishing to try and stick with DNM are as follows

1) cyrus recommend it and i use all cyrus electronics
2) it sounds great in my current system
3) its flat and i can hide it under the carpet.
4) its not stupid expensive in single run form.

 

If you are looking for something that is not stupidly expensive, get some of the banana plugs that work with the Cyrus amps then get some mains cable from B&Q. If you want it flat get some thin gauge stuff and braid a few runs together, it makes it look cool too. I can assure you it sounds very good indeed.

If you want it even thinner consider the ribbon cables used for IDE cables in computers, just bunch it together at the ends. You can get it on 50m rolls from places like RS components and Farnel.

 

hehe i like the second idea.. a cheap mans nordost perhaps?

but surely that would suffer the same capacitance problems as DNM over that kinda length.. and for what it costs you can go on ebay and buy flat ribbon style cable pretty darn cheap.

being flat isnt essential by any means.. its just getting the amount i need.. without pissing away the quality of my system. just new room layout makes things awkward if i want the best positioning for speakers and TV etc.

 

You would have to ask someone who knows more about the DNM cable I'm afraid. I don't see why the ribbon cable would not work if you used a number of the conductors per line though. It would be about the same as using a larger diameter cable. If the DNM is a very thin cable and that is not supposed to be used over a certain length then I'm guessing you really want something that is larger diameter. So mains cable is ideal really, or the ribbon if you fancy it.

 

How about trying the CAT5 network cable project which you can find on the TNT Audio web pages. Friends of mine has a drum of it and we keep talking about making some up to see what it sounds like.

 

DNM has very low capacitance and high-ish inductance - the issue is high loop resistance because of the thin single strand conductor. IMO this makes it unsuitable for use over 5m in typical systems.

The high resistance of DNM does give it a distinct 'flavour' and it is this combined with the inductance that determines the DNM cable sound. It has nothing to do with skin effect or the interaction of magnetic fields around strands.

If you want to remain solid core, a good cable for long runs is Origin Live Soli-Core which uses 2mm conductors and is great over long runs. Only costs £3.50pm.

 

I use the Origin Live soli super £6.60 p.m (a bi wire cable by default) and was amazed by just how good it is, obviously I advise asking them re longer runs (Mark Baker is the man to ask there), but it really is sonically spot on for the money. I have heard Isolda et al at £50 ppm and the soli core is great in comparison at its price. Its thick and ugly but sounds great.

 

i spoke to a guy regarding DNM.. and as im using it in bi-wire config at the moment.. this largely solves any capacitance problem due to the extra runs.

when i biamp however.. im less sure... ive only ever run the DNM as bi-wire sets (e.g. two runs per side) so i dont know how well 5m would work without being doubled up.

i could however convery both my 5m lengths to single wire and then purchase 4 runs of 6m to reach the other speaker and double up on all runs from both amps.

i'll look at the origin live stuff too... im just concerned about blind buying when i know i enjoy hugely the sound i have now.

 

DNM has about the lowest capacitance of any cable in history. This is due to the dielectric used and the spacing, so I really don't see the point of this thread. It is single solid core of limited current ability, so in fact has resistance problems not capacitance problems over long runs. This effect will influence the low frequency characteristics of the system due to limiting current flow, also depending on and influenced by the output impedence of the amplifier used.

Richard

 

i was advised by a dealer that supplies DNM that i woudlnt have a problem at 6.5m if i wanted to keep using DNM..

given its only 1.5m longer than the cable i currently use (and enjoy greatly) i'll likely just go that route.

its a LOT of cable to risk trying something totally different.

richard in that case it must be that using dual runs overcomes the resistance problem then.. as you have a larger cross sectional area of conductor. I use twin runs anyway so will continue to do so.

 

When you bi wire you double the capacitance and halve the inductance and resistance. The same sets of cable bi amping changes nothing, same as a single run. I would say bi wiring at 8m will be just about OK, bordering on audible depending on the amplifier used. Bi amping at 8m will be very apparent in my opinion, and will lose you some of the advantages of the bi amp process.

Richard

 

it'll never be as much as 8m... 6.5m to 7m max as bi-wired setup.

what i will likely do then is stick to bi-wiring as i eventualy plan to go monoblocks anyway... so will be back to twin runs.

 

Hey, if the cable has such odd characteristics that you need to worry about lengths over 6m then change it to something else! ...IMO

Rob, is the OL cable what you have at the moment? Its very stiff, the banana plugs on the back of the Cyrus might not like it much.

 

well i cant say ive noticed anything odd over the 5m runs.... and i like the sound i get.

this is why im sooo wary to change completely to something else. Why change what works eh.. last time i thought that i ended up buying a set of chord rumour 4 and absolutely hated it.

 

That's fine, so long as you accept that the electrical characteristics of the DNM Reson are changing the frequency response - you are effectively using the cable as a mild tone control.

There are other issues with the DNM, like the way that the high resistance of the cable changes perceived bass tightness and dynamics. The inductance over long runs will also roll off the top end slightly with some loads.

Not what you want in a speaker cable IMHO but it's your money

 

Yes, the OL stuff is the Devil's work to deal with but it sounds excellent and is dead cheap compared to other cables.
If you thought the version I use was stiff you should see the 'Super' version which uses four cores and an outer jacket.
Reportedy superb though.

 

well i went from a 2m pair of QED cable to the DNM on a 5m set and the improvements were fantastic. No attributable roll off on treble and bass is as tight as ever.

i cant speak for ultimate bass extension as the 782se's dont go amazingly deep so the cable never over-reaches itself in my setup.

if there is any treble roll off.. it may be favourable in a cyrus/mission based setup and is likely why i now find the system amazingly balanced.

remember of course that cyrus always tuned their gear with mission speakers and DNM cable and more lately with their own variant of the DNM cable, so it stands to reason that there should be some synergy.

what im going to do is keep using the single integrated with twin runs of the cable (to keep down resistance and minimise any nasties) and forgo the biamping option. I'll just replace the amp with the cyrus monoblocks as and when i can afford to do so.

Thanks everyone for all your help.. its let me clear a few things in my head.. and the "under the carpet" friendly DNM will be staying for the meantime.... just need to find more of it now.

 

rob.. are you using the soli-core ordinary.. the one thats about £3.50 a metre

do you have any experience with the soli core super.. looks like pretty beastly stuff.. but it actually represents better value as a bi-wire cable than buying two runs of the ordinary one.

im tempted to try some.. simply due to the fact that its not an expensive mistake if its no good for me.

 

Yes i have the ordinary version.
The only thing that puts me off the Super is that I'd need several months at the gym before I could fit it