are there any exceptions?

It has struck me listening to bits of hifi, how it either does bass or treble.

I have listened to many peices over the years, and without exception, there was not one which did top at the expense of bottom, or bottom at the expense of top.

Well maybe not expense, but all seem to be biased towards one or the other, almost as if there is a frequency range, and if its shifted towards the bottom, the top shifts down, too.

Picture it as a rectangle, that moves, bottom goes down, as does top,
top goes up, lower end follows...

I am thinking it is mutually exclusive to get both, however I am sure someone will say I have both!!

 

Not sure what you mean... Do you mean balance? I.e. relative volume across the frequency spectrum? Or something else?

Dunc

 

I wuz trynaa say that something either does bass well, or the top end, it doesn't seem you can have both.

 

Hmm, can't really say my experiences agree with yours... IME some hifi does bass and treble well, but isn't so hot in the midrange (or vice versa), some hifi does nothing well and some does everything well...

To me, the best hifi doesn't draw your attention to any particular frequency band, and just presents a cohesive, natural, integrated whole. I find active ATCs do this very well, and Meridian CD players provide just the right signal for it to work. Strangely enough, I use these in my own hifi.

Dunc

P.S. - Anyone else wanna chime in here?

 

I agree 100% with that. However, I manage to achieve it with completely different kit to you

 

As Robbo said, we ahave achieved this by non traditional means, but have had all those traits for a lore than a while now

 

Of course, I didn't mean to suggest that only Meridian + ATC will do it.

Dunc

 

My answer is: No exceptions
Every system, independently on how much it will cost, won't reproduce all frequencies with the same good quality/characteristics(clear, open, airy?, ...). Sometimes though a system lacks in the mid range or in other frequencies not necessaraly top or bottom.Lacking is also quite subjective. It depends on what a listener keeps his attention on or what he (thinks he) hears and what he expects.

 

Re: Re: are there any exceptions?

I dont agree...

 

If say you go from a system lacking a great deal of bass (like mine ) to one which goes a lot deeper/has more bass volume then you'll seem to lose some of the treble detail that you had before. That is, the treble will be actually identical, but rather masked by the increaded LF. Was that in any way what you were getting at?

 

Re: Re: Re: are there any exceptions?

mmmm.... interesting
Tell me which system does

 

I think as MartinC said, if you have a lot of LF then it can overwhelm the detail of the treble, even though it is still there it can be inaudible. However, to me this is more to do with the room. If you have a room that does not effect the sound at all (yes I know that doesn't exist) then I bet you would hear both. ...and hence in comes the room conditioning!

Another good way to get both high mid and low would be to use bi or tri amping. Then you can choose an amp that does good LF for the low and a amp that has good mid for the mid... etc - I have no experiance in this though, it just seems idea solution.

 

Of course the room is the cause of every fault in the hifi system.
I hear this argument more and more often. I just wish you would focus more on the quality of the units used.
I know that the room has an importance but first of all the components should be at a certain level. And if the components are chosen with any compromise, then don't give the room the fault!

 

i agree with Titian
If you have naff components they will always be naff no matter what you do to the room

 

And chances are, if you've a "naff" room, it will be naff no matter the system

 

missing the point i think Mo

I think what Titian is getting at, that in the context of this thread, room acoustics does not come into play.
A good system in a naff room may well not show full potential, but will still sound better than the system that was naff to start with

 

Mo
Not really. Certainly you have to take in consideration some of the characteristics of the good system and these have to be "compatible" with the room's ones.
For example you certainly wouldn't put in very huge loudspeakers systems in a 3m x 3m room. But a very high quality small loudspeakers with very good pre- amplifiers and source unit will sound extremely good even in a "naff" room. Making changes to the room will make the sound even better.
My point, though, is that a lot of people give the fault of lacks in hifi systems first of all to the room. That is very easy!

 

I think what Data was trying to say in his original post had more to do with the "qualitative" differences between the two extremes of the frequency spectrum rather than necessary the quantity.

FWIW, I tend to agree from my experiences. There are very few components which either get the balance right and reproduce both top and bottom ends equally well. You either get a well extended well controlled/timed bottom end and hashy/harsh treble, or crystal clear but not grating highs but boomy or maybe anemic bass.

Personally I prefer to get the mid/top-end right first (simply because I can't bare gratting top-ends), then the bottom end given attention next after that. Whether I compromise and go for extension with a bit of boominess/timing lacking, or leaner bass and tigher timing depends. I know many others will go for bass and timing in the bass first and foremost.

 

Yes, its easy to blame faults of a hifi on the room. I dont know anyone that does that though?

Certainly, Ive heard many peoples systems that are far less accomplished than mine sounding a lot better than mine does because of the room they are listening in.

One example was a Rotel BX CDP, Audio Innovations 'Alto' amp, Epos ES11 speakers (under £800 for the lot!) which due to an excellent room acoustic sounded better than my current system does.

A real revelation on that was when I sold my previous speakers - Cadence Diva's (picture below).

When I heard them in the demo room against the Living Voices they were definately inferior to my ears. Yet, the Divas sound in the demo room was better than the Living Voices sound in my house!.... this is simply because I have too many glass/reflective surfaces and a poor acoustic.

I know that a house move in the next 5 years is almost definate, and therefore I can look forward to getting it very right.



Cadence Diva -

http://www.cadenceaudio.com/productfr.html

 

I agree, that's what I was trying to tell in the first part of my first posting in this thread.