ATC SCM50 measured performance vs. high quality studio monitors

Dont the new versions use the same fundamental amp topologies? They have toned it down for sure but its still there. They sound very "characterful". That applies to the power amps and the pres. Most recently I listened to 552/500.

I trust my ears and independent measurements not tabloids bub - I think they just slipped up this time. ;-)

 

What's the point in arguing with you? There is overwhelming evidence that ATCs display very low distortion. But "your ears" in a couple of shop demos two years ago tell you differently.

OK, so that's fine, Nick.

 

Bub,

As stated previously I have heard the atcs half a dozen times in 3 shops over a period of ten years. Did you verify this took place yet?

Nick.

 

The 552 does not sound 'characterful'. It sounds very much like its input, i.e. very different from album to album. I can't comment on the 500.

 

It really doesn't matter, Nick. If you think that you've identified a problem with their speakers, then take it up with ATC, because there's nothing that I can do to help you with that.

 

Markus, you are welcome to comment on my NAC 52 & ATCs if you like. Or, more broadly, comment on your total experience with ATC speakers.

 

Markus,

I heard it in two systems - in each case taking it out but leaving everything else the same removed the character and resulted in a very large improvement in overall sound quality.

The first system at "Oranges and lemons" was based around the nac552, nap500 with a naim cdp (can't remember which but it was around £5k in cost) with naim speakers. Substituting in a bryston pre wrought the improvement I have described (and the bryston pre is no great shakes and I speak as a bryston fan). The sound was much cleaner more dynamic etc etc and there was no trace of the unnatural edge and character. A similiar improvement but of a larger magnitude occured when the 500 was replaced with a bryston 4b-st. Other speakers tried included pmc mb2 and kef 203. Plus linn cdp and amps which were pretty bland IMHO.

The second dem at Cornflake involved naim amps and cdp again as well as atc and pmc speakers. Plus some mark levinson amps and cdp. Again subbing in the bryston gear had the same effect. On this occasion replacing the pre and cdp with avi kit made an even bigger improvement. Naim beat the ML kit.

Given these two independent findings due to a single substitution and hence a single factor, in an all naim system at a naim dealer the evidence seems very strong. Inadequate setup is less than likely accross two specialist dealers I would hope and even less likely still given the fact that an adverse effect was removed with a large improvement in overall sound quality. Admittedly the character is not as strong as it is with the olive kit I have heard but it is there nonetheless.

Doubtless I am going to get crucified for heresy but this is what I heard. If you can suggest other factors that might account for my observations (corroborated by three different people I took with me to various dems) then I will certainly keep an open mind.

Regards,

Nick.

 

If I had relied on shop demos alone to inform my choices, I wouldn't own ATC speakers. It's a schoolboy error, Nick.

 

It's clear that you preferred speaker and amp combination 'A' to speaker combination 'B'. Jolly good. Where you go wrong is in thinking that if you repeat it often enough you will convince others that they are somehow 'wrong' to prefer speaker and amp combination 'B' to speaker and amp combination 'A'. You won't. Ongoing head/brick wall interface situation.

 

atc and naim

Bub,

This is why I use the method of isolating individual factors and judging the relative changes not the absolute performance. This will be the same in the shop as it is at home. With the exception of speakers which interact with the room (though not in regard to the particular issue I have with atc).

Regards,

Nick.

 

All speakers interact with the room: this is how they work.

 

Nobody is "wrong" - everyones choice is valid. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything - I am just describing a particular effect I observed. Forget the other changes I made and preferred just look at the pre. One factor in isolation was altered in two seperate all-naim systems using a variety of different pres and the same behaviour was observed each time. The character I found objectionable dissapeared. The evidence is compelling that this character was attributable to the naim pre. Some people may like that character but it wasnt for me. It is just one aspect of the naims pres performance that I am focusing on here and says nothing about other aspects. There are obviously a large number of other aspects of the naim sound that some may find overwhelmingly favourable but that isnt really the issue here.

Bub - thats what I said

 

There is so much nonsense talked about "the Naim sound". Personally, I find good systems to sound pretty similar to one another - they are faithful to the recording - no matter what the components of the systems are. I haven't heard very many systems which I think are good, however.

 

Nick, I won't dispute your experience. But I am extremely surprised that substituting a Bryston pre for the 552 was considered an improvement. The Bryston - which I have no personal experience of - is generally considered a second tier pre, the 552 is on the first tier. Measures very well, too.

I'll say something about ATCs later. Right now, I have a bit of work to do.

 

The "colouration" was an edginess I associate with 3rd harmonic. An absence of this can hardly be discribed as a colouration. No doubt the performance of the bryston pre is better than the naim in this respect as their distortion figures for all of their kit are state of the art. Figures exist on the bryston website and it would be interesting to see independent measurements for each. In an all naim system subbing out the naim pre made the sound more neutral and removed this distortion.

I dont own a bryston pre. I agree that it is 2nd tier.

 

Retracted, this now is nomiated for the largest waste of webspace so far this year

 

You are even more fickle than my ex!

 

You had a girlfriend?

 

Exactly. A subjective association on your part, valid for your ears only <cue song>.