Audio Synthesis

Anyone any experience with Audio Synthesis's digital gear, in particular, there more recent offerings?

Cheers
JTB

 

tell you next week

actually i have heard their discrete at the last big heathrow show. spent quite a bit of time in their room and must say it sounded very good. not quite as dynamic as the bow/zingali setup which was my favorite at the show but it certainly had that something that made it special.

ditton has a decade which he really rates.

what are you specificly interested in?

cheers


julian

 

I am happy owner of the Dax Decade, bought pre-used (as they say). It does the business very well, with huge sound stage and fine detail and involvement. It was GaryG who brought the Dax Decade to my attention near the start of my HiFi-upgraditis - I think he had the Dax2 before and is now upgrading to the Dax Discrete. I had a demo of the Decade at Gary's and was very impressed. I then discovered that the likes of Slartib.., Beekeeper and Nic all had favourable experience of the Decade.

I first partnered it with the Meridian 200 and then the 602 transports, but managed to pick up a Sony 'modded' as a Transcend by AS for £200!! so I can now enjoy the wonders of Ncode - the AS-encoded signal that reduces/eliminates jitter.

I think I was also taken by the idea that the dac should also be a pre-amp, at least as far as cost was concerned: the Dax Decade is not cheap but then I am not paying for a pre-amp and interconnect.

Mine is the basic 'unbalanced', no-BlackGates model, so I have the downside of inbuilt disatisfaction of 'what if' upgraditis. And then there is always that upgrade on the poweramp side to get the best from the Decade ... I wonder what a valve power amp would sound like???

 

Hi,

I've had a Audio Synthesis Dax Descrete around my house. I thought it was excellent. I used the variable version.

Here are some comment I made at the time.

Well worth hunting down.

SCIDB

 

Ju
I believe it was the wizard cdp and wazoo amp you listened to, if you think that setup was dynamic you ought to hear the pre power setup, it's in a different league, also I found the Zings whilst having a wonderful treble and good midrange, the bass seems a bit slow and lumpy to me, you ought to hear them with faster speakers.

If you are planning a trip to Jockland in the future then your welcome over for an earwig.

Paul

 

Yeah Ju, just noticed that you've updated your listing in "my kit" and that you now have a DAX 2. Must say, going from a CD5 to an AS, a bit of a unexpected/unusual progression?

 

ak,
i don't get up to scotland much even though i have cousins / aunts up there. when i next plan a journey i'll definately give you a shout to try to arrange something.

henry,
i loved the sound of the discrete at heathrow last year and although i had some reservations i was willing to believe this was down to the system it was used in (passive pre, class a power, big tannoy speakers - about as far from my naim as you could get). when the chance of a dax 2 came up with a ludicrously low price tag plus a decent warranty i thought what the hell.
to be honest i was a little dissapointed out of the box but once i had the digital i/c the right way round and it had warmed up after it's long weekend in amtraks milton keynes depot it's starting to sound pretty damned good, certainly it's very different to the cd5 but it's a bit too soon to do comparisons. i'll be writing a review for the reviews section in a week or so once i've listened to a wider selection of music. all i'll say at the moment is that i've had quite a few 'hairs on the back of the neck' moments and even more ear to ear grins.
cheers


julian

 

I've had a DAX Decade for quite a few years, started off with the single-ended version and then had it upgraded to the balanced version which was a worthwhile improvement and then had it upgraded to the Black Gate version which was a substantial upgrade.

I recently had a bout of 'upgrade-itis' and went is search of a replacement for the Decade. I auditioned it against a dCS Elgar Plus and the new DAX Discrete (and a number of AV processors including the Meridian G68), in all cases I preferred my Decade. I've gone ahead and bought the Discrete but with the Black Gate upgrade in the hope it's as a substantial upgrade on the Discrete as it was on the Decade. Should get it at the end of the week, but will need to allow a couple of weeks for the Black Gate caps to 'burn-in' before I find out whether or not it improves on my Decade.

If you are interested in one of these DACs get in touch with Audio Synthesis directly, they have a stock of DAX Decades that have been traded in against the Discrete and are selling them at a very reasonable price.

Also, you will need a good transport to drive it, I used to use a Meridian 200 transport, then a re-clocked 602 which has served me well for many years. In an attempt to cut down on the number of boxes in my system I decided to go for a single box CD/DVD rather than a seperate transport and HTPC, I tried an Arcam DV88 which I sold pretty quickly, followed by a Meridian 596 which went even quicker and then a Tag DVD 32 FLR which lasted for a while but never got used for CD because is was just short of awful. I now use a Meridian G98DH which finally plays a CD better than my 602 (with caveats), however, having heard the Decade being driven by Chord Blu and dCS Verdi transports I may eventually go back to a dedicated CD transport.

 

Gary

Are you getting your Meridian transport ASLed? I'd have thought that a large part of the performance lift from the Discrete would be in using the proprietary clock and data links.

When you auditioned the Discrete against your maxxed out Decade, were you using an ASL capable transport?

I've been keeping an eye on the Discrete for a while and have been in touch with David Heaton on and off. I wasn't aware that there was a BG upgrade available for the Discrete. And if you preferred the sound of the Decade over the Discrete, what made you go for the Discrete in the end?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but I'd be keen to know your further thoughts on the Discrete because it has always impressed me at shows - but I haven't got round to a critical audition and I'm unlikely to have the time/patience to put it up against the competition.

thanks

reg

 

yep, i'd definately recommend dealing with David directly he's a nice bloke and the dax-2 i got was at an unbelievably good price and came with a years warranty.
cheers


julian

 

Reg

In no particular order.

The BG upgrade is only available directly from Audio Synthesis, the dealers know nothing about it. It is a manual process whereby the original boards have their components replaced after manufacture.

At present there is no ASL modification for the new Meridian G98, given the cost of the G98 I think it's unlikely a mod will become available unless someone is willing submit their player to AS for development.

My auditions were done with the standard S/PDIF interface as that was the common denominator on all of the transports. An ASL modified Pioneer was available at one of the auditions but the dealer said it wasn't a patch on the S/PDIF output of the Chord Blu transport and didn't bother demo'ing it.

The reason for buying the Discrete despite preferring my Decade is that I believe David Heaton when he tells me that a BG Discrete is better than a BG Decade, in a couple of weeks I will find out if my faith in David's judgment was misplaced. The jump in performance on my Decade with the BG mod was significant, given that the BG Decade was only 'just' better than a standard Discrete I'm hoping that the BG mod will lift the performance of the Discrete in the same manner as it did on the Decade.

Another couple of factors that influenced my decision were:

Limited support for the Decade now that is a discontinued product such as matching transport re-clocking boards are no longer available.

Support for higher bandwidth inputs.
The Decade can only lock onto signals up to 48khz, I use a Meridian AV processor and feed the digital L/R channel outputs to my Decade to use my stereo system for the front L/R channels, the Meridian defaults to 88.2/96Khz upsampled output which results in ear shattering white noise because the Decade can't lock onto the signal. This normally isn't a problem as I set the output to 44.1/48khz but I have to reset the processor on occaisions which resets the output to upsampled and I don't always remember to set the output for all the DSP modes that are upsampled which results in a hell of a fright.

Regards
Gary

 

Gary, on the Meridian issue, isn't it the case that the upsampling results in an MHR signal that uses proprierty coding and is incompatible with off board DACs?

That was certainly the case with the 568.2, the MHR needed to be switched to off when connecting to various DACs

 

Yes, MHR is certainly an issue, especially on the G68, I had no success in getting the Decade to work with the G68. I'm told that a DAC that can accept the upsampled signal but not necessarily decode the signal should stay muted rather than chuck out white noise at full belt, I'll find out for sure at the end of the week. Needless to say, I'm more than a little nervous that the Discrete may not be all that I hoped.

 

My, I never thought this thread would generate such interest! I've decided on the Discrete and Desire, but wasn't sure about transports.
I spoke to AS about their thoughts and this is what I was told. The transcend having been deleted from their range (due to royalty issues) is unlikely to be replaced by a multi format transport, which would obviously suit the discrete. Hardly any (<10%) of Transcends made were fitted with the proprietry ASL outputs, though it is a retrofittable option.
They instead have worked primairily with the Pioneer 747/757 and also with the Marantz 8300/8400 and offer ASL outputs on these for around £600.
With the discrete, in order to use it to its full potential it needs linking to a transport via ASL.
I'm sure the dealer commenting about not even considering an ASL equipped Pioneer is right in believing any normal Pioneer wouldn't hold a candle to the Blu when used as just a transport, but he's possibly missing the point as the Discete wont be at its very best unless connected via this means.

 

Just to clarify, the dealer was demonstrating the Discrete against my Decade and he said the Chord Blu was the best transport he had available. I specifically asked about his ASL modified Pioneer but he said the Blu/Discrete combo with S/PDIF outperformed the Pioneer/Discrete with ASL by quite a margin.

As I never got the opportunity to hear an ASL'ed player I'd be very interested in the comparison myself, if anybody wants to pop around with such a player let me know and we'll give it a try.

PS

Just a thought, if you haven't already bought a Discrete (I've waited over 2 months for mine) I may have one for sale at an attractive price.

 

You may also wish to know, that David is considering a direct IEE 1394 (Firewire) link into as well, a customer of our has enquired about it I believe.
The discrete works best with their synlock/clock slave intro the doner transport (imho)

 

Interesting tidbit Tony, I never thought to ask David about that, would you care to speculate on upsampling via a dCS Purcell over the in-built upsampling on the Discrete?

 

Well, Gary I'll leave merlin to anwer that one.
I don't rate either the Verdi or the chord blue as transports (whooaaaa seriously controversial/polictical) A name doesn't always give the preformance.
Some one should try the new Teac Multi format player set up.
I use a player that is stock red book 44.1khz, its very very open, MUSICAL and delivers big, tight and correct timied bass and a mid range presence that only serious TT can. Something I yet to hear from any Elgar+ or like set up.
For me upsampling takes the music and pulls it apart, one exception the MSB plat sig dac doing 133.3khz
They all do very nice, clean, open detailed and superb seperation, and timbral accuraccy, but where did the music go?
So for me although its *can* be better in all those traits, however this is just my on personal take on it.
You could also consider the Sacd 1000, that is the transport of choice for the Meitner dac's which to my 'constipated bass ears ' is the finest single digital Hi-fi component I've yet heard, doesn't do music, but its awesomely good at its presentation, silly money yes, but Mr. Meitner may know something about the transport we don't its all AT&T signal transmission too, no 'wires' involved intransmission of data like the A/S links.

 

Tony, as Jackthebiscuit is considering a transport I don't feel that we're moving off topic, I'm more than happy to hear other people's opinions on transports. I thought the Verdi/Purcell/Elgar Plus was very good when in DSD mode, not so good in other modes. I'm only interested in standard redbook CD so all recommendations gratefully received, the badge on the front is irrelevant to me, performance is the criteria.

 

Guys,

If you are looking at stock SACD 1000s, then tread carefully unless you are on first name terms with the boys at Philips or Ed Meitner is your cousin. The transport section of the SACD 1000 has been the cause of a lot of grief to a lot of it's owners around the world with transport shut-downs, skipping discs, overly warm top panels etc. A few of the chip fixes implemented for it did not work.

Btw, it is the very same transport that is in the Krell SACD Standard and that too is displaying the same symptoms as with the SACD 1000. Again, new chips are said to have been introduced which will cure the problem so check before you buy unless Ed Meitner is your cousin in which case, your SACD 1000 will be a top performer as his has been hot-rodded.



Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.