AV again...

Rather then stealing Merlins thread any more, I will carry on here... :MILD:

First some common sense:

An AV system is more expensive then the equivalent stereo...

Most AV systems, doesn't matter how much money you through at them, are badly setup, same with stereo...

Now some facts:

When you attend any live event, you have image and sound, no one turns off the lights, neither closes their eyes, believe me, it enhances a lot the experience watching Ray Charles expression, Norah Jones's even more...

Also, you have sound comming from every side, be it reflections or direct, believe me, after you listen for a while a proper surround system, you will never be happy again with stereo, (I know a good stereo, with a better recording, from the sweet spot, can sound pretty envolving, but that is not the most common situation)...

My conclusion:

Like everything, it takes a lot of tunning, and some habituation, but the technology is now ripe enough, and you loose nothing with AV, surround, on the contrary, you win a lot... :groupies:

 

Antonio, You may be right, or not , My Brother has a serious a/v set up, as well as a 'jaw dropper of a stereo, both are stunning, however the 2 channel destroys the a/v in stereo mode, the a/v has total versitility and flexibility over the 2 channel, again horses for coarses. WM

 

Sorry ...not my view.

I've been attending concerts of all type for the best part of 30years [god that ages me] All sorts clasical rock folk jazz.

In most [all] case the performance is at one end of a room be it large or small. I hear stuff from left of stage and right of stage up and down , more offen than not just from the front, but never from behind. Unless of course its a cough or a sweet paper or a shout and appluse.

If I go to the cinema, I then hear all round sound which even at our recently opened multi million pound warner village is not what I'd call HiFi. Its exciting and dramatic but not accurate, has no prat, you can really tell when music is played even vocals aren't quite right.

Don't get me wrong I like AV systems for films and I've heard so smashers......but not for music. That IMO anyway !!

 

WM,

You said it all, in stereo mode... As I said, it takes a while to tune, and to get used to surround, afterwards it is a no brainer... :MILD:

Zanash,

I have no problems at all with you preferring stereo, but even with your stereo you do get reflections from behind, as you get in any concert, with a big difference, in your system they are not controlled at all, even wrong, a good surround system can fix that, more, fix it to your liking...

 

Low,

You make some good points, but I'll happily counter with the following:

- I've tried my own AV system playing music, and it sounds rubbish when compared to stereo system, despite the fact that both use the same amp/stereo front speakers, i.e. that the av stuff is only supplying front centre, rear channels and the pre amp

- I've listened to the 50k+ meridian dem at bristol and really didn't like it. As suggested by Zanash, when you go to a concert, the group is generally infront of you. Unfortunately most of the surround systems/mixes tend to add more than just reflections, which I REALLY dislike.

- To achieve the add on of additional channels, I would need to use an AV pre-amp. Unless I spend SERIOUSLY large amounts of cash, I don't think I'd get anything that would get close to my stereo pre-amp in capabilities. More to the point, if I were willing to spend LARGE amounts of cash on the AV pre-amp, I think I'd be more willing to spend it on an even better stereo pre-amp, which would murder any av pre-amp in existence.

 

2 channel for me!

I have not heard a multichannel system that is a patch on a decent 2 channel rig. I remain to be convinced I am afraid:MILD:

 

I heard the dynavoector super stereo -

Anyone heard that bit of kit?

Very interesting, added ambience to the sound, unquestionably better in that particular example, with that kit, in that particular room.

NB - if you havent seen it - its a small amp that attaches to a second pair of speakers. You aim the second pair of speakers at the normal pair... like in the example below.... there is also a time delay built into the amp so it reaches you at the same time... like I said, added ambience.

XX..............................XX


xx ............................... xx


.............. MM




the xx's are speakers, the MM is where you sit.

I'd have loved the chance to hear it with some really high end kit, but it shone with the budget kit on dem

 

I think the problem here is that for true HIFI a two channel system will always sound better for music at a given price. So a £2000 multi channel system could never compete with a £2000 two channel system for music.

I heared some multi channel music systems at the Hammersmith HIFI show in 2001, and they were impressive at first but I think the sound was a bit thrillful and gimiicky, there was none of the subtly, although I didn't realy listen for long. I was more interested in listening to the 2 channel Linn stuff.

Who knows though maybe it will catch on, but I think its only for thouse where money is not so much as an object, at my end of the HIFI chain a 5 channel system would simply sound crap compared to my 2 channel.

 

i understand what above posters have said re: sitting in the audience infront of a band performing- try and picture yourself however, sitting (well, hopefully playing ) in the middle of a symphonic orchestra, near the Violas. Now listen to a DVD-A or SACD multichannel of the appropriate genre, and it all falls into place. Its a bugger finding the sweetspot though- especially as you really need uni-directional rear speakers, whilst for movies you need bipolar, or ideally dipolar rears which really mess things up for music multi-channel...just some thoughts anyway

 

You guys didnt read me properly , I know most demos, and home systems for what matters are not propperly setup, at least for my personal taste, and obviously for yours, but we can fix that at home... :MILD:

Believe me, (of course not all records work the same), you can enjoy very much surround, properly setup, ask Michael what he thought of Allegri's Misereri with my setup, and it is much better now...

 

Lowrider,

Point taken, but you could also turn that around and say the same about 2 channel systems.


Robbo

 

i'm with antonio here !!!
a correctly set up cost no object multichannel system will outperform a correctly set up stereo system however the cost difference will be staggering and you'd need a massive room to accomodate the speakers and gubbins. really the only extra here is some processing to multiplex some extra channels out of a stereo source. with all the 44.1 to 192 and 16 to 24 up and over sampling being done in todays cutting edge cd players this is small beans really.
also when you think of a/v you think of a big yamaha not a naim / krell/ tag/ chord / whatever processor with up to 10 monoblocks hanging off it which is what i and i suspect antonio is talking about.
eventually a/v will overtake stereo here however due to cost i'm going to stick with stereo for music at the moment.
cheers


julian

 

But Ju, you are a naimie

Most manufacturers find it difficult to get 2 channels to time properly, let alone a multichannel system!

Robbo

 

yup a naimie dyed in the wool. however i really think that multichannel is going to (if it hasn;t already) overtake stereo. and because the market is pushing that way quality will improve quickly too. also i'm getting a little tired of hearing multichannel naysayers regurgitate the stale line about sitting in the middle of the orchestra. sometimes yes but the possibilities for multichannel to reproduce the recorded accoustic far more accurately than 2 channel and therefore give you a much better sense of being there is what we are all about whether it's a club in ibiza of the royal festival hall. i'm not talking about dodgy disco and hall dsp effects i'm talking about the possibility for exemplary recording and production to really take you there. then there's room correction. much as i've participated in the piss taking in the past i believe there is room for this technology and it will improve hugely with time. of course there will be those with a fetish for plack plastic who will stick their heads in the sand and refuse to embrace new technology however if they are enjoying themselves then that's their business (and i'm sure that rc and digital processing will one day sway all but the most dedicated vinylista to the view that you can gild a lilly).
what do i know though?
cheers


julian

 

I think you are right - market forces and all that.

 

I said that too... :MILD:

As for the bad recordings, I mean with too much surround info, we can easily change the balance...

Also, my system is not that overpowering, I mean it integrates better than many stereos in the living room, you dont need lots of huge speakers, or whatever...

I am not saying it is perfect, or cheap, but I think it does make my point... :beer: