Bach's (who else?) cello suites

Dear Pe-Zulu:

This is very interesting because for the first time I see a clear difference between our approaches to music making. Even if I agree that there is no other way to make structures apparent other than through details, I actually forgive the organist that makes a few blunders but gets the overall structure right. As you mentioned in the organ thread, many organists show some kind of inconsistencies in articulation; sometimes these inconsistencies are impossible to avoid unless one plays all the notes detached.

I have been thinking about articulation for a rather long time. When I played the organ, I eventually reached a conclusion. It is not articulation per se that is important, it is the melodic turn of the phrase. For instance, in the g minor (the Fantasia's) fugue, articulation is, of course, important, but only inasmuch as it makes the phrasing of the theme clear (pam,pararapam; pam,parararapam; paranpanran,pan; pan, pararararam). (I'm sorry, this is ridiculous, but we cannot write the notes!). But is that very important? Well, in this particular fugue it is: as you said, if we don't keep the phrasing, the crochet flow will be meaningless. But let us consider the doric fugue. Must one always keep the articulation? When the theme appears for the first time, in the first section, of course. But when it appears on the pedal, towards the end, before the long pedal trill, one might be excused for 'staccatoing' it a bit. One might maintain the articulation; but I do think one has to maintain the melodic contour rather than the exact phrasing.

This means that I listen to longish pieces as long arches. In fact, and I must apologize if this seems pompous, a piece of tonal music seems to me to be the perturbation of silence.

I will try to explain. Silence is motionless and structureless. When a a sound creates breaks away from that and if the flow of notes define a system (as in tonality and modality) we actually expect it to came to an end and to leave everything in silence again. This is why we feel tense if a harmonic resolution is not concluded (Wagner actually uses that to make terribly anguishing pieces of music). When the structure leads to ballance, music can end, and silence take its place.

This a very complicated way to say that the tonic must be reached again. But I used the metaphor above because it is not all about harmony: in Bach it is about a kind of rhythmical 'modes' and about certain configurations (a theme, its augmentation, inversion, the stretti, and so on). So there is a progressive structuration of silence into sound, and this structure must again reach some kind of equilibrium that makes silence possible again.

Therefore, I tend to pay attention to this structure rather than to the details. Of course, in a perfect world, structure is composed by crystal clear details (more or less in a van Eyck painting). But it can be equally effective if the details are blurred (as in Rubens or, perhaps better, as in Turner).

The comparison with Turner is actually very good because the organ is not a very 'clear' instrument (the harpsichord is): in most organs, you cannot articulate the bass with the same crispness than you articulate the soprano (hence Walcha's use of brilliant registrations: to make articulation possible in all voices).

So, I usually see fugues (and other works) in terms of structure. And perhaps we differ here.

Regarding the prelude: you got it just right. The manuals begin in a sort of insubstantial, highly emotive way. And then the pedal comes in, as if to remind the manuals that there is a very strong menace. That is, as you say, very big powerful planes interacting: there is no better way of saying it.

 

After more listening I must reverse my opinion - the cello suites are great works and definitely from JS Bach's pen. But they demand some time from listener - at first I had not the time and the situation was annoying. I think Maisky's DG set got some bad reviews, but to my ears it is excellent, although it begins very fast. The recording quality is so good that it sounds marvellous even through my portable CD radio - a miracle!

 

Art of Fugue

Check out ECM New Series recording with the Keller Quartet. I much prefer it. And whilst looking check out Bach Cello Suites on ECM New Series. I have no affiliation to ECM I am just a fan of most things that Manfred Eicher produces

 

Dear Kenneth:

Thank you, that was the version to which I was referring when I wrote about a Cd which had a snow picture as covering.

I like that version, it is convincing, but very dark and wiry. That said, the Art of Fugue lends itself beautifully to that treatment.

I may be posting on Christensen's AoF, to which I listened again and found really puzzling.

 

Hello RdS, I'm new to this forum, and am delighted to find a thread on one of my favourite Bach pieces.

Just bumping the thread to say that I love the Lute Suites played on theorbo by Pascal Monteilhet. I just checked on Amazon thinking to paste the URL but it appears to be OOP

The theorbo has a lovely dark, resonant sound that I think really brings out the beauty in this work.

 

Sunnyside,

This:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/1600065/rk/classic/rsk/hitlist

and this:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/3525087/rk/classic/rsk/hitlist

Own both, agree that they are impressive. But I even like Nigel North's lute arrangements:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Lute-V...5075944?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1178289362&sr=1-2

and
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Lute-V...075944?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1178289428&sr=1-13

Regards, and wellcome to this forum,

 

Thanks for the welcome, pe-zulu ... I have put the Nigel North CDs on my wish list!

 

dear sunnyside

thank you and pe-zulu for the links. I rather like the sound of theorbo, but it is oe of those instruments that I almost only like when listened to live.

The transcriptions are indeed very intersting. I wonder if they are playable on the harpsichord.

welcome from me, too.

 

Thanks, RdS!

I have a lovely CD of the lute suites played on guitar by John Williams, haven't got time to post the link now but I'm sure a search on Amazon would turn it up pretty quickly if anyone cares to look.[/tangent]

 

Dear RdS

Gustav Leonhardt has arranged (and recorded) his own arrangements for harpsichord of the cello suites 4, 5 and 6 (as well af his arrangements of the violin solo sonates and suites). I am afraid they are OOP at the moment.

Regards,