Best Bet Amp <£150 S/H

After around 10 years 'out' of decent hi-fi I am slowly getting back into it. I previously had a Pink Triangle Cardinal/Ordinal, Audiolab 8000A with Royd Minstral speakers. Sounded great, but house buying, marriage and leaving UK for 2 years meant everything had to eventually go somewhere along the line.

Anyway, I can't personally (yet!!) justify the kinds of sums I have spent in the past. We are buying a new apartment and so I have started to build a second hand half decent set up, I hope, starting with a pair of latest Rega Alya speakers which are great, even though not yet being fed by a good amp or source. I just paid £147 for a two week old, mint pair via ebay!!

I have also just got a Marantz CD6000OSE, £110, via ebay for which I am awaiting delivery. Any thoughts on this would be welcome like is there any specific type of interconnect it likes?

Next I need a great all round amp and have been considering paying something less than £150 second hand. My list, based really on previous brand knowledge rather than reading latest reviews, includes Audiolab variations (A, LX, whatever), Creek 4040 (which I have also owned in the past and liked), one of the more recent Sugdens, maybe made in last 5 years or so, a Naim Nait 1, 2, 3 whatever, possibly an old Quad 33/303 set up (are these any good compared to some of the other newer stuff I've mentioned??). Or, what about a Rega Elicit or Elex to go with the speakers?

Any ideas and alternatives VERY welcome.

Nice to be part of this forum ... it looks great.

Dave:JOEL:

 

I have seen the creek going dirt cheap, somtimes 30 quid on ebay....have a friend with one, and its still going strong...he likes it..

 

Hi Dave,

Welcome to the forum.

looking at your list of components it looks like you may prefer a more flat earth sound. What kind of sound are you looking for?

If you like sound of the flat earth variety, in your price range a Nait 2 would look to be a good bet. They usually go for around £200 IIRC, but you may be lucky and find one cheaper. Dont go for the Nait 3, by all accounts they are not the best Nait that was made. It is a lot brighter and more forward than the Nait2.

The Densen Beat integrated is a great fun little amp as well and you may be able to pick one up s/h for around £200. Another good amp is the Sugden A21 integrated, but I think they will be a lot more than £150 - anyone?

I am not too familiar with more modern budget amps, maybe someone else can make some suggestions.

Cheers, Robbo

 

Forget second hand waittill you got £250 and go for he baby WAD valve intigrated can't remember the number but bottleneck will know.

For the cost stunning, almost wish I was starting again !!

just looked it up Kel84

http://www.worldaudiodesign.co.uk/wadproducts/kel84.html

 

If you was happy with the Audiolab originaly why not consider it again as you suggest,personally i'd go for the 8000A,as it included a good phono stage,that's if your still into lp',a rega 2 or 3,would suit it fine,there's always 8000 series for sale and there probably around the figure your looking on spending,the rega too are good amps,but could be harder to find s/h.

 

When I first bought the Creek ... probably 10 years ago my musical tastes practically changed overnight. I guess I now like quite simple musical arrangements with lots of emotion and ambience. I like good lyrics: neil Young, Dylan, lots of others. I like India music and some SAfrican ... so pretty eclectic I guess.

The Audiolab was fine but lost something of the intimacy I had liked in the Creek ... though it sounded more dramatic on audition and seduced me to buy!!

My instincts tell me to hold out for a nice Nait 1 or 2 or maybe a Creek again if one turns up for a great price. This set up will do me for 6 months and then the source and amp will probably go for something very flat earth.

 

In that case I'd lean towards the valve amp zanash suggested. I havent heard it though, but some of the guys on the forum heard it last week and say its very good. You have to put it together yourself though!

Robbo

 

WAD will make any of your kits for you BTW if you pay them some more. Its usually under a hundred quid.

Personally, Id agree with Zanash a kit like the '84 will show a clean pair of heels to any integrated shop bought model Ive ever heard under £500.

Valve amps though.. need a bit of care and attention... a bit less fit and forget.. for example, you've got to remember to turn them off afterwards.

Doesnt your CDP have an inbuilt volume control? If so, you could stuff it straight into a power amp.. this would really give you a boost in performance. Ive seen a crimson stereo power amp for £200 for example.

If it doesnt have a vol control, I still wouldnt go for an audiolab personally... your paying for the brand name...the name keeps the second hand prices higher than they should be for the sound quality on offer IMHO...

a rotel powerhouse, or a second hand cyrus could all be had for that $$...

or a Naim combo like ians (sideshow bob) - although I woulndnt call Naim warm sounding, crispy and timing etc etc but not warm

Im gonna stop now, Im rambling..
Chris

 

Well I have to say that I have been considering a nice valve amp for as long as I can remember. I dunno why as I've never even heard one!! Maybe I'm also attracted to the old Quad 33/303 combo for similar reasons... there is something bespoke or hand made about this kind of stuff. You can almost feel the care that's been taken, rather than the mass production that is associated with most stuff these days.

I am very tempted by the WAD valve amp Zanash mentioned, but I can't justify effectively doubling my budget right now today. I've just sold my Sony laptop so maybe I can diverte some cash into the hi-fi rather than into the very deep pockets of the solicitor who's dealing with our new flat purchase!!!

We'll see. I have my eye on a few possible ebay bargains and so we'll see what pans out. If I'm still looking in a few months then the WAD amp will be a great mini project.

 

I think you'll struggle to find anything Naim for £150. Nait 2s seem to go for anywhere from £200 - £300. I was lucky and scored a 1985 vintage 42.5/110 for £125, but these older pre-power combos generally go for £200 - £250.

Recent Sugdens will set you back around £600, but vintage A21s can be had within your budget. They look *extremely* retro, however, and will probably need servicing. Brilliant amps, though.

I've seen Creek and Onix (Nait-like, apparently) around on ebay for your budget, so that may be an option if you don't go the vintage valve route.

Check out the classifieds on Pink Fish - http://pub110.ezboard.com/bpinkfishmedia - for the flat earth options.

-- Ian

 

Maybe I should hold out for some nice old Naim equipment ... I guess I'd just need a pre and power amp combo. Is there any particular model type to go for, or to avoid, and any problems pairing up different generations or model types of pre and power amps from Naim stable?

Dave

 

A few of my favourite second hand amp bargains (in no particular order) are:

Onix OA21 – released shortly after the Nait 1 and not dissimilar in sound but a hell of a lot more powerful. Will drive just about anything and has a fabulously tight and tuneful bass. I used one for years back in the 80s and it was a hell of a hard amp to upgrade from, you needed to spend about three times it price to better it. I've seen them go for as little as 70 quid on eBay which is an absurd bargain.

A&R A60 – don't be put off by its retro looks, this is a seriously competent amp. IMHO still the best component Arcam have come up with. Kicks out a meaty 35 watts that will drive most things, and has a nice warm and punchy sound. I've seen them go for as little as 25 quid! Arcam still service them.

Sugden A21 or A48 – two great amps. The 21 was, if I recall correctly, the first commercial class A amp. Not too powerful at only about 15 watts but has a really nice relaxed but musical presentation. The A48 has more grunt and is a little more forward, but may be in a bizarre orange Nextel furry finish (early ones are in a 60s wood case like the 21, really late ones in a grey furry case). Both can be serviced / fixed by Sugden for a quite reasonable outlay. The A21 will probably cost the whole of your budget, the A48 about half. Both wipe out the Quad 33 / 303 which were their main competition (303 is really good, 33 is just nice to look at!).

Incatech Claymore – Nice powerful, open and refined integrated. Not quite as fast and groovy as the Naits or Onix, but has a superb MC stage and is still a damn good amp. Colin Wonfor the designer will still service them if you ask him nicely. You might just find one for 150 if you are lucky.

Nytech 252 / Ion systems Obelisk – Great amps in a similar vein to the Naits and Onix. Had a tendency to blow up shortly after purchase, but I guess if its still working now then it's a good 'un. £70-150.

Naim Nait 1 – Great little integrated that can embarrass a lot of amps costing far more, and having far more than its 16 wpc. Apparently the thing kicks out more peak current than Quad's old 100wpc 405! Ultra reliable and can be serviced easily. They seem to go for £200 these days, but you might be lucky. The Nait 2 is slightly better but seldom change hands for less than £300 these days.

Tony.

 

FYI:

CREEK 4040:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033230945&category=3280

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033386743&category=3280

NAIM NAIT

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033299718&category=3280

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033318665&category=3280

A modern budget amp to look at by all accounts is the latest Marantz PM7200 with superb classA as well as AB operation - but at £340 (i think) is somewhat over budget unfortunately. May be worth a look if only to judge for yourself how things have progressed (or otherwise) in the last 10yrs in this area of the market.

http://www.hifibitz.co.uk/warehouse/details.asp?ProductID=MARPM7200GD

 

Dave, TonyL (above) has just the guides you need:

Preamp guide

Power amp guide

This is a good site as well:

http://impulse7.com/naim/

Closest to your budget will be a 42 or 42.5 and a 110 power amp. These combos comes up in pairs on ebay pretty regularly. The preamp-de-jour for old Naimies seems to be the 32.5, but those sell on their own for £200 or so.

Good luck.

-- Ian

 

Thanks for all the pointers ... totally useful. If the right Naim combo's come up for sale then I'll be in there and maybe I can find a bit of extra cash.

I also found http://www.neilmcbride.co.uk/ which is a good intro to the various bits of Naim equipment, though perhaps a couple of years out of date now. Loads of 'mods' type info.

With the older Naim equipment, will there be any problems with attaching the CD player? I guess it can go in the aux or tape input!?

Of course, all this may be blown away for now if one of my curent ebay bids results in a win. Some nice amps for me on there just now. I reckon I'll end up with one of the old 4040 Creeks again

Dave

 

Yep, CD can go into Tuner or some other input. Of course, Naim uses DIN connectors rather than RCA, but you can either buy DIN->RCA interconnects or, cheaper, Mayware DIN->RCA adaptors if you have ICs already and non-Naim sources. Your friendly local Naim dealer should be able to flog you a Mayware adaptor for about a fiver.

-- Ian

 

just a couple of notes to say that the naim world is a funny one...if its modded, noone wants to know...as though tinkering with the naim magic will somehow ruin its magic touch...I saw some avondale modded ones and the guy had trouble shifting them....

...I have one of the wad kel84s, and it is very good, as good as most trannys, cost regardless, its quite full on too, not laid back warm, soft and cuddly,( like spot my cat!, ) and its 12 watts are pretty potent...

those creeks do go cheap on ebay tho' 40 quid or so, can't go wrong for that

 

No problems.

 

Thanks Lt Cdr

I think I have made my mind up to go for, in order, one or other of the following:

Top buy S/H Naim combo for up to £250 which will last me until I win the Lottery!!

Top buy S/H Nait 1 or 2 for up to £180, probably another long term buy.

Fully working, decent Creek 4040, pref. Mk II, or vintage Sugden A21, for up to £90, this to tide me over until I get the World Audio valve kit, or whatever is a similar great buy in 6 months.

Whatever else comes along on ebay that seems like top notch bargain buy (they DO exist!) ;-)

I'll keep you posted with choice and listening test once all assembled. Budget was £400 and so far have spent £250 on Rega Alya's and Marantz cd6000O ... not bad so far but let's just hope they all get on music wise!!

Dave

 

be interesting to find out how you find the wad kit if you do build it...this ones not difficult...its a pcb...carful not to overheat the board or components...esp the board, as you can knacker it totally...but its pretty much soldering by numbers...
..the tricky bit is the inputs to the volume control...
I don't think you can do much wrong with buying the kel84, as its 275 quid, no trouble selling on..you won't lose a lot if at all, and the vavles are only a fiver each too...