Best Midrange?

Of the listed options I would vote for ESL57's.

However I voted 'other', I think the Quad 2905 has the better mid range because it does not suffer the same constraints as the ESL 57.

It has to be noted that Audio memory is fickle, and that the systems for 2905's is vastly different than the ESL 57's.

Ken

 

Hi Ken,

Anone used to hearing a 57 decades ago via valve amplifiers could be more than a little surprised hearing it driven by modern SS. The massive impedance swing from around 35 ohms in the bass to 1 Ohm at HF will very noticeably change the speaker response when driven by the low output impedance of (most) modern SS amps.

 

You mean when driven from high output impedance valve amps?

 

Yes, glad someone is awake

 

Hi Rob,

You are probably correct, that is why I cautined my response regarding my current system.

I would like to hear a pair of 57's again with my present Pass Aleph Mono Blocks.

Ken

 

Rob,

Were the 57s voiced with higher impedance amps in mind?

When I had a pair I ran them with a Nait 2 and they sounded very good, but I sometimes wonder whether the 57s would have been better paired with a nice tube amp from the late 1950s, similar to how my old Tannoys sound much better with valve than SS electronics.

Joe

 

Joe,

Given PJWs record for having all bases covered, it is highly likely that the output impedance of the Quad II (current at the time) will have been accounted for.
The quoted impedance of the II was around 1.2 Ohms IIRC and likely more at HF on the 16 Ohm tap.

That will reduce HF output from the 57.

Coincidentally, if you plot a 57 running from a modern SS amp it has a rising response on axis.

Undoubtedly the two factors are complimentary.

The Quad 303 does something similar but the effect is smaller.
Interestingly, such is the 57 loading that even Naim amps will give a little roll down at the top.

One thing audio sell a device called the 'Widget' which mimics this effect.

 

Joe - IME - A Nait 2 works really darn well as a jack-of -all trades with the 57s.

A fine valve amp (AudioInnovtions with Border Patrol PSU) definitely accentuated the ...desire to wear orange cardigans and only play Jazz recorded 1957-1959 on Verve or Riverside. Beautiful, if limited.

With Serious Solid State, the 57s would play anything in a giggle-inducing manner (esp. the Aphex Twin. Ask JR.)

I don't think that's real though - more a calculated effect. A drooping Z from the cap. loading certainly doesn't actually lift acoustic output significantly / ie I don't think ESLs sound bright driven like this... been a while, I could be wrong.

Very good info on the interaction of 57s and the 303 here though:
http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/57and303/interact.html

 

Hi Martin,

I think the 57 has rising treble driven from low source Z, two pairs have certainly measured that way and that is audible dead on axis. It happens fairly high and above the presence band so avoids sounding obviously bright and/or hard.
I'm not saying a SS amp actually boosts top end, more that tubes amps reduce it.

 

Felix,

I thought so, too, but a bit more weight at the bottom end would have been nice. In fact, that was the only reason I ended up with something else. With midrangy acoustic music the Nait 2/57 combination was very satisfying, but with rock, reggae and dance music it just wasn't working for me.

I can think of worse places to be than stuck in the late 1950s.

Yeah, would be interesting, but serious solid state usually has more than enough juice to arc the 57's panels.

Joe

P.S. NO ARC I.

 

Felix,

I'd agree that some Tannoys — for example, the 15-inch HPD Berks I tried a couple of years ago — have an odd midband (a bit sucked out is how I'd describe it), but I don't feel that way about Monitor Reds in GRF cabinets.

They're not quite at the zenith of 57 midrange magic, but the mids are very good and are what sold me on them thar old Tannoys. (If I had to fault the GRFs I'd say their top end isn't as extended as modern designs, but super tweeters can address that deficiency if you need a bit more tsssssst on your high-hats.)

Joe

 

Other : ADM9T

Better than ESLs and DC Tannoys.

A combination of modern transducers, built in pre, true active crossovers, good construction, and carefully matched powerful main amps (four of them in a stereo pair), - so no problems with amp matching or cable selection.

JC

 

Several large format compression drivers(on the right horn) are capable of astonishingly clear midrange.. JBL 2440, Vitavox S2, JBL 2435/476/Truextent Be's, TADs...

 

Yes, I use JBL 2482 for low mids and JBL 2435Be for upper mids.
Very clear and detailed.
S2's too expensive for me right now.

 

TAD 4001 mid here, Supravox 11" field coil for upper bass.
Keith.

 

Compression drivers on horns are a hangover from the '20's and '30's cinema auditorium era, when only low power amps were available.

The high levels of distortion they produce are audible, but some who don't often listen to live music get to like the sound.

JC

 

There were a pair of AVI speakers playing at the Wigwam show this year.
Perfect for the smallest room in the house.
Keith.

 

Can you tell us what well implemented hifi horn systems have you heard to base that comment upon?
I do listen to live music quite a bit. Even small-medium sized venues were sound reinforcement is necessary usually use horn array systems.
They often overdrive them and don't have bass horns for one reason - compactness.

Good hifi horn systems are very different.

 

JC,

Laddy, don't you think you should rephrase that?

Joe

 

Been years since I've seen that Joe