big drivers: alternatives to tannoys and Yams?

Yes, but it is one the very finest loudspeakers ever made. Really state of the art stuff.

Yes. Harbeth, too.

 

Anyone care to sum up the JBL sound? strengths and weaknesses, that sort of thing.

Thanks

 

Exciting, effortless, very very dynamic, great punchy articulate bass that's even better than my other faves Tannoy imho.
The 80's 3 and 4 ways don't image particularly well but man are they enjoyable to listen to.
Some don't like the 2405 slot tweeter-I love it.
The newer stuff has many of these qualities whilst addressing most of the weaknesses-The 250i's for example are hard to beat without paying serious K2 type money.Over to you Andy...

 

Hi Coda

If you want something with a more modern slant and the speakers don't have to go up against the wall, you could do worse than look at the Bastanis Prometheus (which I have) based on eminence drivers (though substantialy tweaked). Another one to look at are the Hawthorne Iris these come in 15 and 10 inch versions, though again open baffle so need a bit of space behind them.

You are welcome to come and listen to my speakers at any time you like - I'm based in Bath. I also have a pair of reworked Tannoy SRM10b's (10 inch driver) in the attic.

cheers philip

 

I'd say the bass and upper bass are what set JBL apart from alot of other designs. The designers have obviously tuned things to their liking and basically want to bottom end to kick like a mule. Scale and weight are the two best terms to describe it. You'll know what I mean when you hear it. If you like 70's, early 80's rock, JBL is the system to have.

I find upper bass gets "lost" in many small woofer designs. My 250Ti's use a 14" and 8" drivers which is a little crazy by todays standards but it just works and adds the upper bass weight to a snare drum for example.

Here's a post by JBL's key designer Greg Timbers on the Lansing Heritage forum. Sums up the companies design ethos really (I wish more designers would be so honest about what they do).

"Thank you all for the interest in my work. I must admit I have been blessed with a really nice profession that has treated me well for a very long time. Remember that sound and music enjoyment are very personal things and that what makes you happy may or may not please others. Screw them. If you are happy and no one is geting hurt then go for it. No loudspeaker system even approaches real life so there is plenty of room for interpretation."

These would be fun if bidding doesn't get out of hand:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....1067&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab=Watching

 

15inchers!!! Me want.

 

Actually, a quick summary of my previous post would be:

"JBL's get your foot tapping!"

 

You know what? that's it in a nutshell-unfortunately tho' foot tapping tends to get abused at hifi shows!
I'm still dialing my beasts in and have gone back to bi-amp using the passive on the mf/hf, better I think. They are just so seductively engaging even though the wide dispersion of the 2397 is interacting with the room 'too much'-they are still just great to listen to.
Those L100's went for £140 ish today btw-not bad.

 

Hey Phil, when are you going to post a few pics of those Tannoys-they're gorgeous?
Frank

 

Good 4430's rarely touch the £1000 mark on UK eBay.

I reckon the ones I linked to above are a bit rough around the edges (woofer cone/surround look good though) and will go for £700-800. Don't expect much above 14kHz out of them (who needs it anyway )

 

What are you using as an active x-over for the low-mid? Analogue I hope.

What about this one that got away...http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....m=330245896892&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=014 thought you'd be all over it!

 

JBL's kick ass with dub, funk and jazz too. The 4425 and 4430s are really good loudspeakers though in a studio kind of way, which means the L-pads need to be brought into play.
The classic case against JBLs is that they are boom-tizz; ie all big-bottomed bass and screaming high treble with sod-all in between. It has to be said that there is a small element of truth in this, but it does get grossly exaggerated. In fact the JBL 10" as used on the classic 4-way Studio series / Westlakes is a very fine midrange driver. Positioning and sensible use of the L-pads works IME.

 

So, um, what you are saying is lieder is not really their thing then?

What I have generally found disappointing in speakers are the more visceral elements of classical - Verdi requiem for example, big thumping timpani need to thump; but then the delicacy in the mids and top still needs to be there for the solo voice stuff. Similarly I'm also after lower strings which really give the impression of a vibrating string attached to a big resonant wooden box.

It's not only classical btw, but it is the bit I'm fussiest about.

Just getting back to Harbeth; I did spend a fair bit of time listening to M30s, could happily live with them but would probably find myself hankering for a bit more drama.

 

Thanks for that. Have looked at Bastani before now so it's good to know there are a pair in captivity not too far away. I'd be grateful if you could give an idea of the sound; though I'll most likely take you up on your offer next time I find an excuse to come up to Bath (come to that, last time I found an excuse it was to listen to speakers).

 

Hi Frank

still need to do a finishing front baffle for the Tannoys - had some lovely maple ones made, that were a bit thick, so took them to a local joiner, he stuck one through his thicknesser and it got wrecked (his blade was blunt)

the Bastanis kind of took over so Tannoys are on the backburner at the moment.

Coda,

the Bastanis the best speakers I've had by a long shot. They are not small but a damm site smaller than a large tannoy. They work surprisingly well in my moderate listening room - typical UK living room 15 X 13 with bay window. I think part of the secret is the sealed 12 inch woofers (there is a 15 inch option) - which are actively driven. You don't get sizemic bass, but its clean an fast. Being a non ported design helps with integration to the room and open baffles. They are very sensitive and play well at low levels, but if you want to turn up the wick they will go loud - really loud too. They do however need about a metre behind them, I pull them out for critical listenening.

cheers philip

 

Someone got a bargain with that KT-I'd've had it but noticed your heads up too late.
To keep them as was means the 2235's let run without any roll off and the mid/top was on 12 dB slopes in the JBL active xover.
I'm rolling the bass out at 1k @ 12dB as some peaks in the 2235 around 1.2k, I'm bringing the mid/hf in at 800 on a 24LR slope.The overlap gives a slightly warmer sound.
I'm still using the XTA -it sounds fine, in fact its top end is sweet. I'm dialing in a gentle(2.5 dB) very broad dip to flatten the wide hump in the mids of the 2441/2397.
You just have to make sure you feed it with plenty of signal, when listening at night I drop the input gain and increase the pre amp gain to keep the xta well fed with plenty of signal(-6dB)
I'm not there yet I was very surprised to notice the difference to the overall sound just say 0.5/1 dB cut/boost can make.
Cooky

 

In all honesty, no. The 4338s that out magical friend had for a while are fantastic, but are very different beasts, as are the K9800s

I know you're looking for alternatives, but it would be worth your while to check out NS1000s. I'm not saying they will work for you, but as one of the interesting options they are worth investigating. Also keep an eye out for s/h Spendor SP100s...

 

Those 4430's sold for £720. A fair price really.

 

ns1000

From what I can gather, when people don't get on with these it most often has to do with the potentially rather 'aggressive' tweeter. To what extent do you think this is down to:

getting the amp right

getting siting right; particularly wrt to on/off axis response

personal preference?

 

Set the L-pads to somewhere between -2 and -3 for the tweet, and -3 for the mid.
Make sure that there's enough bass lift for them not to sound mid-rangy and that they're far enough off the floor for there to be no issue with floor bounce cancellation (ie Quad-like).
Get them on axis horizintally and vertically - ideally have your ears midway between midrange and tweeter. That said I do usually turn the treble down a notch on the pre amp when watching close mic'd TV programs
They're also a slightly evil load, so a suitable amp is required.