Brainstorm please folks: s/h floorstanders £400-£750ish

Brainstorm please folks: s/h floorstanders (shock update)

Repost from "the other place" for which I apologise - everyone else seems to do it though

Happy New Year all, and especially happy chez PeteH as it's time for the long-awaited speaker upgrade . So, currently there's a NAD S500 running into a Marantz PM6010KI - the amplifier will eventually be replaced with a big integrated like a NAD S300 or an Arcam FMJ model, but that won't be for months at least, and possibly not til next year.

I'm not entirely sure yet how much I want to spend on a second hand pair of speakers - I'm leaning towards blowing out as much as I can afford though so as to lessen the chances of wanting to upgrade soon . OTOH if anyone thinks there are great buys to be had around £400 then I'm all ears. Models I've been looking at include Monitor Audio S8 and Studio 20SE, Celestion A2 / possibly A3, Mission 783, B&W CDM7NT's, Castle Howards. Ideally I'd like a pair of GR20's or PMC FB1's but realistically they're going to cost beyond what I can spend.

Criteria: floorstanders, real wood veneer (I know, I'm shallow ), and good ultimate bass extension, ideally heading towards (or past!) the 30Hz mark if possible - basically the best speaker I can find for the money which happens to incorporate the above. Any ideas, comments on the above list, or suggestions for things I haven't thought of are welcome, and indeed much appreciated. Musical tastes 98% classical so I'm looking for tonally realistic, well-detailed sound.

 

For what its worth my favourite speaker in that price range is the Neat Mystique, which just happens to be nicely veneered and a floorstander. About 800 new / 450 second hand.

Tony.

 

Pete - If my experience is anything to go by (with similar musical tastes to you), that's a really tough spec at that price point. I found nothing I was close to happy with below about £2500 (e.g. the MA GR60s came closest, but those metal dome tweeters gave a them a pretty hard sound).

It's a bit above your intended range, but you should really get yourself a listen to these - baby brothers to mine and Wadia-Miester's. JJ at SOM has an ex dem pair on sale currently at £975. Not sure whether it really is their first order crossover design, but whatever it is it really takes away all the boxiness and rubbish that so messes up the sound of an orchestra. They also really know how to do a transmission line speaker. (And if they're anything like W-M's, the "ex-dem" means there's only about 40 hours on them, so that's virtually brand new - and they improve substantially with a LOT of break-in).

The only other speakers I really liked at the £1000-ish new mark were Opera SuperPavarottis (distributed by UKD - although they are only advertised to go down to about 50Hz (I notice their price has gone up quite a bit since I was looking). I see SOM are also selling a Callas s/h - stand-mount but may be worth a listen. Ah - there's a Vienna Acoustics Mozart pair on hififorsale now at £625. Pretty good...warmish sound...maybe don't go quite low enough but darned good for the price.

Actually I also quite liked the earlier Kef Reference series - but then they got replaced by the god-awful 203/5/7 range. There's a fair few of various vintages (104/2s and 105/3s through to Ref 2-2s) on hififorsale and ebay now. Maybe someone else can tell you something about them.

 

You may want to consider the 3 way Heybrook Sextets...
Weird bass loading system (incredibly damped bass enclosure and ports) that works well to my ears and by tweaking the stuffing of ports and/or enclosure is very tunable. I like both in mine 'well stuffed' but my room is not big enough to support 30Hz and I grew up ;~) on infinite baffle, but the said 'speakers might get close in the right room.
They do feature Seas Mid and Bass units and most importantly the wonderful and very rare Tonigen Ribbon tweeter. They were ~£1100 in the 90's and can be found in your price bracket. The Mk2 versions onwards (until Mk4?) do have lovely veneers... mine are butt ugly Mk1s ('black ashique'!), but have been upgraded to Mk4 bass unit/crossover and sound too lovely too worry about! (I paid £530 incl delivery s/h).
For what it is worth my ideal illogical theoretical 'speakers in the said price range would be a 3 way DIY build featuring the Tonegen (or Visaton) ribbon, open backed mid and transmission line bass. Duck and Cover?!

 

I think the mystique is a great speaker, and for rock/dance is excellent, but for classical, I think the tweeter may not be up to the job as it can be a bit obvious.

You may be able to pick up a pair of ProAc response 1.5s or D15s at £750ish if you are lucky. Most ProAc speakers are tonally excellent (although usually on the warm side of neutral but that makes them easy to listen to IMO) with plenty of detail and good imaging. should be great for classical.

Talk to Merlin, he knows about all things ProAc.

Cheers, Robbo

 

https://www.audio-forums.com/as-rediect/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2452

 

I've heard this levelled at them before, but I suspect it is just a matter of break in. A couple of years ago Bob & Derek from Neat brought a few speakers round for me to try. I ended up really liking the Mystique, it is a very even handed speaker that played anything I threw at it from hard tight indie rock, Krautrock, drum and bass, techno, Frank Sinatra, jazz and classical. During all this the tweeter never drew attention to itself – the Mystique was just a superbly balanced performer. Had I not found a cheap pair of Harbeth C7s (which are even better, but not a floorstander) I would almost certainly have a pair.

Tony.

 

Hi


Tempting as it is to reccomend a great speaker for 800 pounds, I wont!

Its one of my strongest beliefs in hi-fi that - you only get a good sound from a system when the speakers are being driven PROPERLY by the amplifier.

For 300 pounds you should be able to pick up some Ruark Talisman II speakers, or Linn Keileighs. There are other floorstanders as good as these (they are both 800ish when new).

The remaining 500 from my budget I would add to what I had intended to spend on an amplifer, in addition to the second hand value of my current amp.

This would provide approx 1,000 for an amp.

You could then go for an amp with loads of power and detail and great sound that may have been circa 2,000 new.

Why not try visiting http://www.adverts.hififorsale.com

A quick look shows that you could have Bryston amps, Naim pre-pow, DNM or a host of other quality amps for that much.

Honestly, I think 1,000 on an amp and 300 on speakers will give you more music for your money than 800 speakers 500 amp.

Good luck!

 

First off I'll say go for the NAD S300. Partnered with the S500 it is absolutely fab. I have this combo myself and it blew all manner of competition straight out of the water when I listened to it.

Speakers - can't recommend any 'cause I don't spend my life in a listening room, but add good bass control to your request of bass response. The S500 has been universally praised for the bass it can deliver from a CD and the S300 really lets this shine through - if your speakers can't keep a firm grip it will be all over the place. You'll need to be careful with your positioning too I'm sure. Having re-arranged the furniture I'm suffering a bit from boom with my mission 775s (hardly the most controled of speakers to start with I must confess).

I've heard good things said about the Dynaudios and they apparently work well with NAD electronics, not a clue as to the price but if they are in your range it might be worth giving them a go.

 

Have a listen to the Quad 21L 's ......I would certainly consider these if I was looking to buy a floor stander at and above there price point.
I demoed the Quad99cdp with them, using 99power amp and the 909 power amp at verious times. They are pretty damn good for a cone speaker, tight fast bass that goes suprisingly deep, imaging good but not upto electrostatic's, mid and treble without critisism. A thourghly good speaker that plays the music how it is, unlike some I've heard.

 

Wait a month and see what my DIY 3 way floorstanders turn out like. If they are any good, I'll tell you what NOT to do..and how to make them better, in 1/2 the time it took me. [~£400 parts] They are large [100 litre] floorstanders, with professionally finished wood veneer cabs. Of course, you then have to start bodging cabs for the drivers you choose. In some ways it would be easier to start from scratch, but I couldn't do a veneer like the pro's can. They are specced for <30Hz bass.
I was in Wilmslow Audio a month back, and they had a nice [pair of?] one-off floorstander cabs @£75 in bare MDF by the door [2 x 5"+tweeter, I think]. However their prices can take the piss, so maybe it was £75 per cab!

 

Caveat Emptor

I would be very careful,

The room /speaker interface is at least as important as the speaker you choose. A speaker you like at a friends house or in a dealers dem room may not sound remotely the same in your own room.

I would strongly advise not buying any speaker you haven't heard in your own room for say a weekend. Unless you are after LS35as which i have never not got sounding reasonable in any room we have tried them in.

 

Tony: the Neats have been added to my mental list of things to look out for, thank you very much.

GrahamN: the Kestrels do look lovely but unfortunately £975 is out of the question for me at the moment. I'm hoping for something that's capable of reasonably flat performance to or below about 40Hz, with some residual output heading towards 30Hz - I'd like to at least be able to hear/feel some of the larger organ pipes in my CD collection

Lord: I'll have a look at the Heybrooks too, thanks.

bottleneck: I hear what you're saying but I've decided the speakers are next on the agenda - I'll probably be spending more like £500 on speakers than £800 in any case (unless I get carried away ). A new amplifier will come a little later on.

stumblin: yep, I'm keeping half an eye out for an S300, they don't seem to come up for sale very often at the moment. You're not selling yours are you?

zanash: I agree, the Quads are lovely, but I think I'm probably going to go for a slightly older model in a (possibly misguided) bid to get more for my money.

You're a great lot and I love you all Any more suggestions?

 

Not a chance

I might part with the 775s though, they are getting a bit unruly for my tastes now.

 

Hi Pete

There is a pair of FB1's in this months hi-fi choice classifieds. He wants £600.

He gives his location as Hastings and his tel no, 01424 425679

I expect they are long gone but you never know your luck.

best of luck

Rod

 

These are quite nice (FB1's) IMO.

I wouldnt call them deep bass monsters, but tuneful average-room-sized speakers. They dont work in all room shapes and sizes, nor with any amp.

How big is your room?

It was interesting looking at your original speaker choices. They included Monitor Audio GR20's and Castle Howards. They are very different sounding speakers.. a home demo is definately needed IMO

My best advice would either be to ...
1) Go to a dealer and borrow the best models in your price bracket with the amp youre thinking of getting
2) Go to a second hand dealer and do the same thing! (emporium (diss), trading station (peterborough) are my nearest.. but I dont know where you are!

 

I would go for s/h proac 125s at your price, most of the above I would say are going to be bass challenged, with the exception of the celestions and b/ws
They are all nice however, and heybrook are grossly underrated

 

I am suprised that FB1's are considered bass shy, they go down to 22. I have the OB1's which are rated the same and they kick out some serious (controlled) bass when asked.

Rod

 

Pete,

You have PM

Cheers
Jeff

 

Well, I went out to poke round the dealers and do a little sneaky listening today, and rather to my surprise I accidentally bought a pair of Quad 21Ls for £570 :JPS: Not committed yet - they can be returned within a week, and admittedly they don't go as low as I'd like, but otherwise they're great. Must add that I was highly disappointed with the Mission 783s - all thumpy bass and plasticky treble and not much in between, and almost unlistenable to after the Quads had been on for a while.

So if anything I'm in even more of a quandary than before, except that there's now a time limit of a week during which I can get a refund on the Quads. Still, concentrates the mind somewhat