Buy from a Dealer or buy Direct?

I hope we do see an end to this fighting because while it might provide a little light entertainment for some it doesn't advance the discussion in the slightest.

Richard, I have to take issue with this:

A perfect example of the very ad hominem that you have been railing against recently.

It turned a perfectly good thread sour and there is no need for it.

 

That guy turned me sour a long time ago, he has appeared because I am posting here. I will accept your criticism if I see you remove the personal insults aimed at me mostly by Mescalino, remove those and don't allow new ones and you will never get anything like this from me again. You seem to allow it or are we going to get like PF where anyone can do it to me but if I do it I get censure.

Lets have a flat playing field where everyone plays by the rules, 'cos if someone kicks me I will kick.

 

What has or hasn't happened elsewhere is not our concern.

If anyone throws personal insults around they'll be deleted, as were the ones aimed at you yesterday by nando.

 

i agree with hi-fi personal views, not personal ones so let us stick to the themes on the tittle of the thread and keep personal issues OUT, enough said
nando

 

And I say again what about Mescalino. Plus there is much still up from Flatty from before I decided to kick back.

OK I am willing to accept that in this case it may not be biased moderation as at PF, just lack of time, but in that case appoint another mod. But make the playing field level, don't just blow your whistle at me.

 

Then why don't you follow your own words, why have your posts been removed by the mods, and even then there are still some of your personal ones left up.

 

i thought we have droped the dead donkey?

 

hi andrew, a nice thread may i say, very interesting views, as i have to now work from home as i am partally disabled i do have the passion to offer home dems with help of my crew that are knowledgebla through me, service to the customer "personal"i think it is more important and after sales service,
regards,
nando.

 

I definately think this thread has run it's course... personally, it's got little to do with hifi and really just seems like anger and resentment over two pages.

not very summery.

go and play some hippy music and dance around the living room immediately.

 

jimmy hendrick's or the kinks?//

 

Or just go to the local pub and drown your woes in some good ol' tasty ale :beer:

I think we should actually redefine the term "local" when applied to hi-fi dealers or other sellers of diverse leisure equip. The web has altered the way we interact with our hobbies. I personally would have to drive 150 Kms to the nearest "local" dealer.

I usually purchase most of my stuff through internet dealers who give what I feel is a thoroughly professional, personal and dedicated service. I talk to them on the phone or via chat/email. They don't understimate nor patronize me and are willing to hear what my real needs are. They're gentle and spend their time with me, and at the end WE both feel we get a good deal.

They have a generous trade-in and home-loan programme. Some of them have even pointed at places where I could buy something 2nd hand, so that I could afford a new item (new cartridge/used tonearm, for example). I've been invited to be picked up at the airport and to be logged in at a very low cost in case I wanted to fly over to them from here. There are still some real classy dealers out there who burn for this hobbie, believe me.

So then, what's local? They really make me feel as one of the locals, even though I live far far away. Last time I paid a visit to my local dealer here in Spain (after 150 kms drive) he didn't even want to swap speakers, because he said "they were way over the budget I had stated". On the other hand, a certain chap in St. Andrews (Scotland) whom I haven't personally met (yet) is so popular chez moi that even the missus talks to him for 10 minutes and laughs just before she passes me the phone. Mmmmm Maybe I should check that out...

Sorry for the rant, mates. I go and drink a nice cold Pilsner now. It's still pretty warm here and all those glowing valves won't help cooling me down !

Regards,

Vincula

 

there are few dealers I would give time of day to.

Keith here seems a great guy (purite audio), although I havent bought from him yet -given that my love is valve amps - it's definitive audio and Noteworthy audio - both love horns and hornspeakers.
For cartridges uncle ants from ZG started 'needles and spins' so I'd like to give him some business one day. Also ''hifi collective' is a mate, so he deserves the excellent business he runs.

essentially if I'm to buy it new, I'll buy it from someone I'll really rate.

mostly these days I like to solder and build, or get a mate to.

 

Funny that, I love to solder and build as well because I can get better than I can afford. If I was rich then I'd be down the dealers for whatever I fancy.

Honestly how many of you given the finances would NOT use a dealer to buy the system of your dreams?

 

That's a remarkably good point, but it's a mark of how bad some dealers are that there will be people who would still choose to buy direct, even if they had near-endless resources.

But yes, if I had the finances, I would pay over the odds for good service, professional installation, store and home demo facilities, back-up, etc, etc, etc. I wouldn't pay a premium simply to allow some disinterested tobacco-stained snob to insult my intelligence and I certainly wouldn't shell out good money to help pay for the upkeep of a dust-filled, dated cobweb-collector of a 'shop'.

The crazy thing is I have no problems with people earning a living - even earning a very good living - if they are providing a service. I would rather watch some expensive car dealer get rich and fat off my money, but in the process provide me with all I need to enjoy that car for years, than I would hand over a few extra quid to some shonky dealer who will go bust every two years due and leave me with finding someone else to support my driving habit, but is cheap. What I resent however is someone getting rich and fat off my money and still behaving like a shonky used car dealer.

Here's a free tip, Mr Dealer. You are selling expensive, luxury goods. Go to the purveyors of other expensive, luxury goods (not just another hi-fi dealer). See what you are up against. Perhaps then it might dawn on you that you aren't just competing with internet retailers and other hi-fi shops... you are up against the Aston Martin dealerships, Armani's Bond Street store and the Mayfair Leica shop. You aren't high-street anymore, but even if you think you are, go look at the Apple Store. See what they all do in terms of presentation, professionalism, sales and support and then take a long, hard look in the mirror. Especially in the mirror; if you think wearing a once-white, formerly ironed shirt two sizes too small and with an interesting collection of food stains dripped lovingly down the front is the ideal dress code to meet new clientele... well, good luck in your new job.

As Richard Dunn rightly pointed out in another thread, many people today 'buy' because they don't know how to 'build' (in that case, 'buy cables' instead of 'soldering their own'). There's little point trying to show them how to build, because the expectation of wanting and needing those skills is just not there anymore. Until recently, we were in a culture that spent its way out of a problem; now it spends less, but supposedly spends more intelligently.

If dealers want to survive (and ideally live beyond a hand-to-mouth existence) they should strive toward facilitating that more intelligent expenditure. The dealer should provide what is right for the customer, not what's right for the dealer. They should be able to provide a service the customer would pay extra for, not just randomly selecting the best reviewed products and charging a premium for their selection process skills. They should keep abreast and ahead of the game, finding out about new formats, and mapping the best pathway through the computer audio minefield, not just dismiss any future business by pouring scorn on the whole concept. They should also do this with an open mind, but not so open that they will take any nonsense at face value.

If you can't do that Mr. Dealer, then hire people who can. Failing that, do us all a favour and go out of business, before you are forced out of business. Sorry, but it's step up or step off time.

Now, can someone send me a step-ladder? It's a long way down from my high horse.

 

I feel lucky enough to HAVE the dream system I actually wanted: the CDP came from a dealer, the rest direct from manufacturers and forum/auction sites. All in all, it cost me just over 50% of mrp. If, in the coming years, I feel like something "better", I'll still follow this route.

Now I'm not saying that there isn't better out there, there will be because the hifi world is a big place. I just don't particularly feel the need to explore further, I now just enjoy what I have. It also doesn't mean that I don't trust retail outlets: there are some great dealers out there who will help those who need it. I've dealt with a few who I would wholeheartedly recommend, but I've met others in the past who, frankly, should not be in the business. It's just recognising that, the more expensive a product is, the larger the margin, and what methods are out there to help reduce that margin.

 

With margin reduction something must give!

 

Does it though? I get manufacturers support for the products I have bought direct, I got the 30 days back, I even got dem facilities. It can be done without High Street and staffing overheads.

 

Generally, the more specialised (and expensive) the product, the higher the margins. There's a simple reason for this; people who buy specialist products buy them from specialists and this limits the number of products they can sell.

You'll never be able to sell as many Linn DS products as you would Squeezeboxes, but if Linn dropped its margin to Logitech levels, companies selling them would not sell enough to stay in business. If you want the specialist advice and the full package, ideally you need someone selling Linn AND Logitech, thereby providing higher volume, lower value and higher value, lower volume kit for consumers.

 

Me.

Why?

I don't know any dealers that stock the stuff that I'd want to buy.

Dealers tend to have a rather limited product range.

The sort of stuff that I like to buy tends to be high-end vintage stuff that the vast majority of UK dealers have never heard nor seen in the flesh.


A dealer is no use to me if they don't sell what I'd like to buy.

A dealer is no use to me when the kit I already own sounds as good as or better than anything they stock.

 

Lindsay, if you had large cash reserves would you not seek out a dealer. Your love of vintage gear is, I suspect, based on value for money. Nothing wrong with that at all, I have done the same BUT I would at least audition new stuff via a dealer if I had the cash.