Buying blind

Some pink fishy hi-fi net.gurus are getting their knickers in a right old twist over the heinous crime of buying hi-fi gear 'blind', or to be more accurate, unheard. So confess and be absolved. Or possibly flamed.

I bought my (s/h) NAC 52 unheard @ half price.
Ditto the ATC 100s (s/h).
Ditto the TT I own (s/h).
And the Troika an' all.

In my defence, I had heard a brand-new pair of the speakers in another room in another system at a dealer. Very useful: they sounded dire!

I had also heard JW's Ninja, and just hoped that mine would be similar.

The 52, I have no excuse for. I wanted one and it was cheap (relatively speaking).

So, how do you get a decent audition, particularly with s/h gear? Bearing in mind the likelihood that said gear will sound very different in your room from the noise it might make in the vendor's room, I would have thought that the "Trust your ears" mantra, which is trotted out so frequently by the more sanctimonious among us, is, er, bollox.

"Cross your fingers and pray" is more like it, in my case!

 

I'll stick my hands up here and admit that everything I've bought has been bought blind .

Whilst I may not have been particularly sensible in this route, in my defence - if one is needed - I have always made sure that I have never paid more than I could make back if I sold it on.

 

I got my Arcam Alpha 9 s/h without ever hearing an Arcam player! The reviews were so good for it and I was desperate as my Phillips went kablamo! - and guess what? Its the best sounding spinner I have heard!

I got my Cyrus 3 s/h without hearing it. However I had heard a Cyrus 7.

My speakers I did hear in a demo room, however I didn't listen to any others! I just loved them so I got them right away! Monitor Audio GR10's. - Now sold off! Waiting for PMC AML1's to arrive! :SLEEP:

I always start with the intention of demoing lots of stuff. But then it just becomes so hard to find a place to do it! So I give up order it and cross my fingers!

 

due to circumstances, I may have to buy a new stereo amp blind...sigh....but hopefully not, I'm after a nad, marantz, rotel or the new cambridge audio...all in the 200 - 300 prices range...

 

I used to buy everything blind, but most of the current setup is made up of stuff I'd listened to first, apart from the turntable, which was a secondhand bargain that I knew I could sell for what I paid for it. The arm and cartridge were blind purchases as well.

If a secondhand buy is a decent price, and it's relatively easy to sell on if no good, I can't see any problem buying blind, I've bought and sold on quite a bit of kit in the last year or so and it's all basically free. Quite good fun to try new things as well, helps keep upgradeitis at bay.

Bub, if I was you I'd pick up a secondhand ATC CA2 (they can be had for peanuts, mine was £375) and try it. You never know until you know, if you know what I mean.

-- Ian

 

I too have bought most things blind (all except my Rotel amp and B&W 602's).
But as with Goomer I never buy at more than I can get for it.

I also only buy after a lot (and I mean a lot) of research. I also have bought off friends who have similar kit and on their recommendation.

I bought the rest of my B&W speakers (same series for surround, and two centre's) as I love my 602's but all blind.

My Av amp (Marantz SR7200) completly blind, but that was a cracking buy. My MF A324 DAC from friend. Half price. Best buy I've made (nearly)!

I have also bought and sold more cables than I care to mention. Fortunatly I haven't lost any money doing so. I now have some amazing cables for fractions of there new price. Can't recommend this more!

And to be honest its all quite exciting and great fun (if you like that sort of thing . And as we are all here I guess we must do!!). There is no dealer pushing you his highest profit making component. No leaving the house even. If I don't like it I sell it on. I also have a great deal of experiance with different components now. I can with resonable authority comment on a lot of different things now.

So I see no problem with it.

 

Until my current system, I did buy most gear without listening, even ordered a pair of speakers from Boston, I lived in Canada then, they where unknown brand, Pentagram I think, pyramid shape, ribbon tweeter, dome mid, 8" woofer + 12" passive radiator underneath, interesting, but too bright with first generation CD players, replaced by KEF 104.2, after extended listening... :shame:

Now I audition at home everything before buying... :MILD:

 

If buying new or ex-dem then I definitely audition, at home. Most things now I buy second hand though, but only ever at a price I think I can sell it on for if I don't like it. In fact I think I've probably made a small profit with this approach over the last year . If you're happy developing a system gradually rather than needing to go out and buy it all in one go then this is the way I reckon. One thing I think I have to thank ZG and the other place for is my willingness to now follow this approach...

 

Bub, I think the secret is to buy everything blind, sometimes on the basis of recommendation, but also to buy it cheap so you can move it on if it doesn't work.

I've done a few home dems of things but I'm not sure you learn much. For example, my present speakers sounded truly dire when I home demmed them (with the designer, whose face dropped a bit) but I bought them anyway because he's a nice bloke. A year later and I've got the little buggers to work.

Dealer demming is only useful if you wish to convince yourself not to buy something - nearly everything sounds bloody awful.

Alex

 

Superb - I'm gonna become a hifi dealer and have this printed on my business cards.

 

alex,
surely though if you are doing comparisons then you can at least eliminate the stuff that mings from the merely awful?
i've bought most of my kit after home demos except for my 82 which i got for about 1/5th of it's retail price. most of the time though it's been a case of buying it with the option to take it back in 2 weeks / a month if i can;t get on with it, that said i've never taken anything back.
cheers


julian

 

So that's why you like the 82 so much Julian!

To answer your question: no. I've done a few dealer dems which actually showed the opposite of what's supposed to happen - superb kit would have been written off and the merely average embraced as something special.

 

Yes, sorry, pfm still talks about music and hi-fi, which is exactly what it was designed for. I'm sure you must be missing discussing the tedious minutiae of how to post / who should post / how should others comment on these posts / who phones up the forum owner for the longest to complain about these posts etc - just like the rest of them do over on the little furniture forum. At pfm we do things very differently

I wasn't targeting second hand kit as that can be moved on with out loss. I'm just astounded by the blind trust of those who simply walk into a Naim (or any other brand) dealer and buy a expensive brand new box without even hearing it, let alone making any effort to discover if they prefer a alternative. As soon as they carry the thing across the shop doorway its worth 60% of what they paid – I for one have never been that gullible!

Tony.

 

I've been half and half,but mostly through recommendations from people on this forum.

I demoed the Micromega Transport,as it went through its life as a stage player,until I turned it into a dedicated transport.Also the Rega P25,which to my ears was a vast improvement over the planer3.

But I didn't demo the Cal Audio Lab DAC,which was superb,nor the Conrad Johnson pre and belcanto evo 200.2 I went with Tony and everyones else feedback,and I wasn't dissapointed.

Have always used Audioquest cables,and just moved up the range,the same for B&W speakers which I'm very used too,so bought some older P6 without demo.


The thing i regreted buying without a demo was a REL strata sub,just couldn't get the thing to integrate,so it now sits in a A/V set up only.

 

yup, Ive done loads of this! (buying blind)

but like others I always buy cheap and second hand, so I sell on pretty frequently.

With that wonderful thing called a 'bake off' my system has meant I can buy second hand stuff... and not be blind! marvelous.

the emporium have reduced my blind buying aswell. When they get to know you they will let you try stuff on sale or return with only postage (both ways) to pay.....when I bought my amp I borrowed 4!!!! power amps and kept my fave.

works for me!
Chris

 

Maybe I can help you with that one, because I dont believe it wont integrate with anything, and I dont mean there aren't better ones out there... :MILD:

 

Yes, far be it from me to comment on the Mana forum's goings-on, banned as I am for taking the Mick out of the hallowed isobariks, but it is extremely amusing just now. How the whole forum centres around just one individual & his psyche.

Ah. Fair point guv.

Ian, yes I'll try to, but no time, and no phono stage = Hassle.

 

I bought my Marantz CD16 blind, as a CD transport. I was reasonably sure that it would make a good transport, so wasn't too worried. Even unclocked it took apart my clocked rotel 991.

I bought the superDAC blind, but at £100 it wasn't a risky one.

I bought the RA-971mk II blind, having wanted one for some time and after finding a good price. I had heard other rotel amps, however, and definately landed on my feet with the 971.

I bought the Meadowlark Kestrels blind, but I was so impressed by tone's shearwaters I felt that if they were anything like that in character, I'd be happy, and they're superb (now that they've run in).

However, cables have all been bought after trying them in the system (Omiga Spitfire analogue IC, Tara RSC Prime speaker cable, digi IC is unfinalised).

Mains treatments were semi-blind (heard them in other systems). Rack was blind because I designed it myself.

 

Good thing we dont have to buy into foruns blindly....

 

Back to the thread, I've bought a lot of gear blind, hasn't always paid off, but thats 'thrill of the chase', it also introduced me to a whole host of equipment I'd have missed out on, but use a bit common sense, quiz the seller throughly, you may a stonking piece of kit, that some one else dislikes and wants to get shot of, that really does it for you, sometimes a gamble is worth a go. Wm