Cable argument 2007 round xxx

I'm sorry Mr Cat - you've lost me? What was that meant to refer to?

Isaac,

Hopefully the forum will cease being polluted by such rubbish and we can all get along nicely. If you look at the original posts, you'll see this Zanash character tried to come down like a ton of bricks when challenged by Mosfet. The typical response. Post drivel. Get challenged. Lose temper.

The challenge only appears if someone posts unsubstantiated rubbish in the first place. The way to avoid all this is to A) not post misleading rubbish. B) post only what stands up to scrutiny by your peers. Hopefully that message will get through.

Belittling? I always think there are two ways of that happening. One is the name calling which has gone on here ("uneducated brat", "ignorant rude non person type thing") - which is simply offensive for the sake of causing offence and is both childish and unneccessary. The second is if someone posts a stupid conclusion and if caught they are made to look stupid in front of their peers. In this instance they cannot be belittled if they are right - so again all they have to do is post facts or questions.

 

People may post what they like within the bounds of the AUP. The other thread was closed because to bring it within those bounds would have taken hours, and led to no gain. I'm not willing to engage in an argument with you.

As long as anyone stays within the bounds of the AUP, they will be allowed to post. If they make personal insults about someone or their beliefs, they then operate outside the AUP, and if they persistently do so, they will after discussion between the mods be banned.

Nobody has the right to control the 'editorial' of this board, ZG and Groovehandle before it, has always prided itself upon this. There has never been an agenda inherent. Cable believers and sceptics alike are welcome.

Those who wish to conduct a 'witch-hunt' because they disagree with other's viewpoints, aren't welcome here, and never would have been. No-one has the right to decide what is and what isn't an acceptable post, unless something in that post contradicts either the AUP, or is blatantly offensive.

 

So you are happy for ZG to be a source of disinformation?

Isaac, it's not about people's beliefs here -it's about people in business making claims that fly in the face of common scientific knowledge. It's important for me that these people are making money out if this a whole different ball game.

Are you saying that it is unacceptable for someone like me or Robert to call something utter bollox and drivel when such a statement is correct and provable? Are you saying that mocking someones lack of knowledge of a subject the claim to be expert in is also unacceptable? Someone who claims to know about cables but doesn't know any of the science behind it? Are you saying they are allowed to post whatever they like, charge other forumites £200 plus for some magic wire and room divining, and that we are not allowed to say what we think? This person leaves himself open to ridicule in the same way a dodgy double glazing salesman leaves himself open to the BBC.

I've spent a decade trying to have intelligent discourse with these poeple and you can't - it's simple. They will continue to post rubbish and continue to refuse to produce any form of proof whatsoever. The internet teaches us one thing, and that is whoever shouts loudest gets heard best. My feeling is it's about time the people for whom hifi is merely a hobby, and who have a modicum of knowledge and understanding, shout as loudly as the snake oil salesmen and enthusiastic ignorants.

If I am breaking the AUP then do PM me and point out where. If it is no longer acceptable to insult someone's beliefs when their beliefs are insulting in themselves, maybe we need an new AUP.

 

I know how you feel.

I may not believe a lot of the benefits suggested by the uber treakers but I would never decry their views.

 

I must say I'm really enjoying these debates. Being a anti mumbo-jumbo type I pretty much agree with Stereo Mic but like a number of people I think I've heard the difference between cables that seem to measure very similarly (L,C,R). I'm just not sure if it's totally my brain creating the difference or whether it's the cable, or a bit of both LOL. As I said I'm in the science camp but do we really know what is going on at a quantum level with regards to electron transfer within different materials ? Are any electrical measurements sensitive enough to have any relevance to what we can hear ?

 

JCL,

The simple answer to all of those genuine questions is for blind tests. And I'm fully understanding of the concerns held about the suitability of ABX and reliance on short term judgements.

But the lack of any evidence whatsoever and the refusal by the one side to take any form of challenge seems to settle the argument.

I have done long term blind testing if you like - having two outputs and two inputs and never being sure which one I was listening through for weeks on end. When you do something like that, and find yourself really enjoying the system only to realise you have been using the freebie cable, your perspective changes.

My arguement has never been that differences do not exist. My point has been that these differences are enirely explainable by scientific variables and that the results are entirely unpredicable in reality from one system/component to the next.

When you therefore get someone telling you to upgrade to the Platipusalloy 519 because it will give you oodles of thwack and a stage to the stars, you not only know it's bollox, but I personally feel my intelligence is being insulted. Unfortunately Forums don't have the equivalent of the ASA.

 

I think zanash genuinely belives what he is saying to be true, and he lets you try before you buy, so where is the harm?
if you must, take it out on the consumer (me included)
as all zanash has done was try to help and offer a decent product
it is not like he is selling bell wire for 300 pound a meter is it?
it is a quality product and even if it has no sonic advantages it is worth it for the workmanship alone.

he has also advised on free tweaks etc that you can take or leave.
I really don't understand how it peaves you so much?

to be honest I would rather have someone trying to sell me stuff than moan.

I would suggest you start your own thread stating how you hate the way hifi gear is sold and marketed, try not to put any names in it, it may be an interesting thread.

I would rather not read moans in what was a thread supposed to be about a diy meet up, all it would have taken would for someone (who was there) to say well actually "this or that didn't sound that good" and it would have been a constructive argument.

 

Maybe. He seems to believe he can dictate speaker positioning by using divining rods so anything is possible.

Have you any idea of the statistics for returns on 30 day trial offers Dean?

How much did you pay him if I might ask?

Er, in many ways yes it is I'm afraid. Bell wire may well sound the same in certain circumstances.

Hey, I also go to great lengths to keep my clients happy. But I can see that every single part of your hifi system has been "modded" so it is unlikely I will convince you in the short term that you would be better served putting your pennies in the Halifax and buying better quality kit. But if you want me to take the efforts of Zanash and others seriously, convince me.

 

I'd suggest you mature a little ....then take a few moments to digest what I actually said...


Quote "After a few disc I swapped ic to the platalloys oddly these really helped tame the room. I was unable to do what I intended ...which was a simple switch of three identical ic's each with a different metalogy [sp metallurgy]....oh well"

saying someone is spreading misinformation ...or telling lies is a serious accusation..... now I can back up my statements as many contributers and moderaters know, but can you ?

As you will have noticed there seems only two people who have taken exception to this statement ...neither of course were present so can't have the faintest inkling what took place [other than from my short description]. Now if they had been present and disagreed with my version of events I could understand it.

SM don't hold your breath waiting for a retraction !

mosfet ...thank you for pointing out the spelling mistake shame about your post being deleted.

 

stereo mic ...this is fantastic but its against the rules of this forum to advertise.

so don't be and Ar*e and stop it now

but I rather you did not advertise my products ....if I wanted to I would.

 

I can't deny the logic in that.

 

Just in case you didn't get it the first time .....

will you stop advertising my products ....

if you want to review one of my cables use the correct forum please .

 

Ok, either we all go back on topic and stop arguing about cables, or I'll prune this thread back to the beginning again. I'm getting really tired of this, it's getting in the way of life

 

Now remember what I said about name calling for the sake of it? So totally predicable sadly.

So we are back on topic - you claim this. Please discuss how your magic cables tamed room acoustic issues. What issues were there? How did your cables correct it? Are you aware of any methodology which would allow attenuation of in excess of 10db in the second octave of the audible frequency response? If so could you post it so that we can discuss it?

OK here's your opportunity. Back it up.

You still don't seem to grasp it do you? There is no way you could have acheived what you claim. It is physically impossible and this is proveable through tomes of work stretching back a millenium. Please (polite see) put up or shut up.

Mods would you prefer that we open a seperate thread to give Zanash the opportunity to explain his scientific breakthrough?

 

I don't think I would do better buying better gear, for the money my system sounds great, and everybody no exceptions even friends who have no interest in hifi have said so unprompted.

I heard a lowe system the other day in harrods, mine was infinitely better sounding and this was 10 grand at least.

I know you could do a lot better for the money, but I have done better than that one at least for a lot less.

what out of interest would you recommend to me that would sound better than what I have for the £1700 I have spent?

 

Dean I've no idea. How much time and miney have you spent on modifications?

 

"it's about people in business making claims that fly in the face of common scientific knowledge. It's important for me that these people are making money out if this a whole different ball game."

"Unfortunately Forums don't have the equivalent of the ASA."

Hi SM does this mean that the Citroen C4 really doesn't turn into a Transformer?

Just out of curiousity who appointed you as the Hifi Fora Policeman?

philip

 

It's in the interest of everyone that claims (or lies) are supported by facts (truth) isn't it ?

I've got nothing at all against Zanash. In fact he seems to be a nice guy. But if he's making claims that can't be backed up I think he's open to every counterpoint that Stereo Mic is making

 

look it's obvious,pete wrote it up incorrectly, he meant helped tamed the 'sound' and wrote helped tame the 'room'.

seeing as the sound is a response to the room shape, literally, you can look at it both ways, in reality, he believes the ic's helped to tame the 'sound in the room'.

and if you weren't there, you don't know otherwise, you don't know the cables, their characteristics, by your own admission "the results are entirely unpredicable in reality from one system/component to the next."

so lets just leave it at that.

if Pete genuinely believe his cables are capable of attenuating a specific frequency range, then unless they have a 'network' on them, he's just plain wrong.

But we all know that's not what he actually meant, and it's already been pointed out to you....

 

I didn't realise it had. Apologies if I missed that.