Cable argument 2007 round xxx

Rob hi thanks so even with 'identical' cables, ( except for conductor material ) any difference in sound I hear could just be LCR and not an actual difference in the 'sound' of the two conductor materials.

 

Why?, no one seems to be discussing the DIY fest itself. I'll unlock it shortly if anyone genuinely wants to discuss the actual topic.

 

Interesting, but that wasn't the question.

 

Standing waves were, I thought, more with regard to digital connections and impedance mismatches?

I also believe similar goings on happen with toslink.

Any more links to information regarding standing waves? Particulary in regard to RCA stereo and RCA digital?

 

check out jensen transformers....there was some on there but it will be a hunt!

 

Sastusbulbas,

I was talking about standing waves in rooms - as it was these that Zanash claimed he could miraculously tame.

Rob has done an excellent job of highlighting the facts, and we await some specifications from Zanash to back up his outlandish claims. One of the other members here also made a point that the impedence mismatch between cable and electronics could possibly also be audible. I think he may be onto something again but it's not predicable and will again be shown in the combined LRC charactistics.

Keith, I posted earlier the tiny differences in loop resisitance between sliver and copper - less than 8%. It's incredible to suggest this would be responsible for any perceived differences.

 

Copper and Silver Question ?

Is Silver a better conductor throughout all frequencies, or is Copper a smidge better in some?

I know its all down to personal taste when used as IC or power cables etc, but was just wondering technically.



So far, I by far prefer the sound of A Copper IC, to all the silver ones I have heard (and all the other Copper ones)
From my limited experience the silver ones seemed to deliver more of a, spread out, sound when playing, compared to the 'other' Copper ones...maybe thats the 8%

 

Mike Hi I am just wondering if all the elements of two cables are identical ( apart from the LCR which may be negligible ) If I believe that the two cables 'sound' differently could I be hearing the sound of the conductor, do you believe that conductors sound differently? Keith.

 

My the folks here seem to have been on the grumpy pills of late.

So what was at the DIY fest? ... I'm intrigued

 

Mike - You have taken Zanash's comments far too literally, Despite the fact that I think you probably knew exactly what he meant.

When I move a system into a new room I always try use various Cables and supports etc to help make the system more to my personal liking both tonally and spacially. I think thats what Zanash attempted Its very normal dont you think? Never did he claim a new discovery - Thought he tamed a problem sound quality problem a little. Unfortunately you jumped on him

Maybe what do you do in the same situation: Plonk equipment it in a room ,start a thesis on equipment interactions, discover that the specifications of a Amstrad 8000A are better than an Ongaku, so therefere buy an Amstrad safe in the knowledge that you can prove its better. I bloody hope not.

On these occations I find - ears are the best way not scientific proof


When it comes to comments from certain people several of you suffer from a selectiveness that belays the scientific reasoning that you profess to have. This selectiveness coupled with rudeness that peppers many of your posts dilutes your credibility.

Guy Lets get back onto a good track on ZG

We all have a similar objective - Top quality Music for minimal cost and effort.

Andy

 

My own findings have been that not all cables sound the same, there are differences.
But I have to say most of this has been between cables of different construction. Naim Nac5 versus Van Den Hul D352, DNM, copper versus silver plated, woven versus co-ax, solid core versus multi strand etc etc.

Other opinions are that the dieletric can make a difference? I guess one would have to experiment with say two different brands of 4mm copper cable with different insulation?
Though in the case of Naim Nac5 versus say Van Damme 4mm it would seem the heavy gauge strand count of the Nac again sounds different to multiple fine strands?

 

Hi Andy.

Although, I'm sure your stated objective does indeed apply to many forumites, I think you are being a little presumptious in saying that it necessarily applies to everyone. There may be some here for whom sticking to 'minimal cost' really isn't a requirement.

Just thought I'd mention it.

 

Andy, I corrected your post. Hope you understand why.

Let me tell you what I do. I model the room and all the furniture in Cara and then let it perform some calculations. I then fillow it's guidelines with regards to speaker and listener positions and look at the predicted response. I then play warble tones through the system and identify any areas that might need attention. If room treatments are in order I will experiment with them. If there is a clear interaction between speaker and room, I will often consider an alternative speaker more suited to the room.

Let me assure you, that by the time I have finished with the above procedures, I will have accomplished 100 times the subjective improvements you might get by playing with some interconnects plus those improvements will be real and measureable - not imaginary and non existant.

You can listen by all means - good science will concur with the findings of your ears. It's the eyes that are the problem

I don't think I have any problems with credibility. I have owned most of the major cable brands products over the years, and I can point you to any number of educational white papers that will back up my point of view.

Zanash and his customers on the other hand, have nothing other than to claim they hear differences which is patently questionable because they are sighted when they carry out the tests.

I am rude on occasion yes, but it's because I am fed up with the persuit of excellent sound being bogged down by common crooks pedalling snake oil and misleading many people on the march towards their goal. This is not a stance based on dogma but on experience.

Repeatedly we have asked Zanash to produce any kind of evidence to back up his claims - even something that demonstrates the parametres under which audible differences occur. Here we are on page five and nothing/zip/diddly squat. Just protestations and insults. Frankly it's bloody tiresome.

 

I could write a lot at the moment about cables and all the insults being thrown about but sod you i am going to listen to some music.

 

Correction accepted Thats more a personal objective of mine.
Hopefully Im not alone though.

Andy

 

Is Cara a complexed program to use, Mike? Personally, adopting a more systematic approach to speaker positioning could be exactly what I need- as I often get it wrong, through laziness as much as anything else.

 

Good answer

You Model the room? Like "On the catwalk today Mikes wearing a room 4.3 x 5.2 x 2.8 ,a pink polo shirt from purchased Bicester village accessorised with a large sofa stuck to his rear end"

Dodgy correction though.

Andy

 

I'm a duffer when it comes to computers but the first time, I took it slowly, followed the instructions, and managed to have a 3D CAD drawing of my furnished living room inside a week - probably working an hour or two a night. That was a very detailed model - right down to the stone of the fireplace. And I was listening to music whilst doing it.

It depends how far you want to go. Once you've managed that, it is really easy to experiment with positioning, look into placing absorbsion and many other modifications and to see the results in real time on your screen. It's far from foolproof but it is a very good way of learning a little about room acoustics at the same time - knowledge that will stand you in good stead in the future.

Once you realise that moving speakers or the listening position just a couple of inches can result in frequency shifts no cable can possibly acheive, you realise just how valuable a tool it is.

Alternatively you could use divining rods.......

 

Thanks.

 

Mike,
Is it capable of allowing for whether there are 2 people in the room,if you're naked, a fat bastard or whatever?
How about velvet or leather thong?
How much fine tuning do you do after Cara has told you what you need for good sound?
I find it a little hard to reconcile trusting a $74 computer program over 100,000 years of auditory evolution.
Ok I'm having a laugh but really slavishly following a computer programme?
Imagine your response to a post like this;
"You know what guys ,my system sounded shit last night, turns out the misses rearranged the scatter cushions-or turns out I was wearing Angora instead of denim."
Come on, if moving your head a few inches can have significant effects-after Cara has told you whats best do you sit with your head in a f*****g clamp?
There's measurement and analysis and there's dissappearing up your own arse.
F