Cable argument 2007 round xxx

No, it's the mrs that makes an allowance for that, IME.

 

Ah, so you've met my misses then

 

Goodness me, what a thread.

I have a lot of respect for Zanash and the products he creates and have heard many good things about them. The room statement did concern me a lot. I would be very worried about an interconnect that did that amount of taming to a system that it accounted for room modes.

What would that mean the cable does in a well sorted acoustically correct room? I dread to think. I do however understand the point he was making about likely taming some excess brightness with a smoother sounding cable.

I have for most of my hifi career been a bit of a cable naysayer, but decided a month ago to hold a bakeoff in which direct comparisons would be made between speaker cables, interconnects and digital cables.

The equipment and room were static and very well known quantities to each of us.

In every case the cheaper interconnects were readilly identifiable as sounding worse than the better offerings of the day. In this case Tandy Gold patch and DNM interconnects versus Nordost Valkyja, missing link cryo reference and chord signature.

This shows a broad spectrum of materials and approaches to cable design. My preference overall being for the pure silver missing link cables, closely followed by the nordost.

Similar results to be had from the digital cables... This was the one that susprised me the most. I have always firmly believed that there couldnt possibly be any notable difference between digital cables. But with blind listening i was readilly able to identify at random which one i was listening to. That points to less that subtle differences (and in at least one case, it wasnt subtle)

Speaker cable likewise again, but due to the cables all coming from around the same pricepoint, performance was not as varied as i had expected. In this case Kimber 8TC, Townshend Isolda and Chord Signature. I didnt really like the chord, finding it bright, top heavy and artificial sounding as i have all chord cables.

Well ive waffled a bit here, but just to make the point that, whatever the reason (scientifically explainable or not) differing materials and cable designs do indeed have a profound effect on the sound of any one system, and its not always the most expensive that wins (in the case of the missing link bettering the nordost which is some 4x more expensive)

Sounds like this was an interesting event though, its a shame not more of these DIY events are held in this part of the world

 

You must live in a cave, alone...

But most of us also use our eyes, and like to listen to music in a nice room, we also have girlfriends, wifes, friends that we like to make feel good in our music rooms...

Back to you, you wrote the other day that once you equalized your system for a perfect response in your room, but didnt like the result, and ditched the equalizer, perfect response isnt so perfect after all, is it...

Then again, it is impossible for you to know and input to Cara the real caracteristics of your room walls, furniture, etc, do you tell the program your size, weight, and your clothes, that for sure has influence in the sound, do you change the settings when you where a suit, versus when you where a tee-shirt...

 

Once again - the charmer. Whilst I could afford to buy a young brochure bride from the Baltics, I prefer to spend the money on decent hifi.

Who said you couldn't have the two? Once again an example of you not understanding the subject.

You are getting the word "flat" confused with "perfect". There is plenty of research done into preferred frequency responses - try reading some of Floyd Toole's AES work - then you might begin to understand.

No it's not. Again ignorance. Try to do some research before wasting bandwidth please Antonio.

Was that an attempt at humour? You might be surprised to learn that none of those things have a significant impact on sound in room - although they are more likely to have than any amount of cables, Chun Fook discs or Fuk Puks you might want to pretty up your folly with.

Shrink,


that was a very long post which proved nothing sadly. We will all hear cable differences at bake offs I'm afraid. That does not mean they are real. As you respect Zanash, has he provided any supporting evidence to you to back up his claims or are you happy to go on blind faith?

 

I have to say I find both camps in this field rather disapointing, its getting a little off subjective debate, and becoming tittle tattle in here!

As for rooms, one of the weakest parts of the HI FI chain is the room, there are plenty of PC sofware packages no doubt, and then you have items like the Tact 2.2x pre and the Behringer DEQ2496, which help to some extent. This does not do anything more than alleviate the symtom slightly, like Asprin, it ain't going to remove the tooth!

I almost went for the Tact myself (still tempted, but now lack funds?), but to be honest I was unsure its musical performance was greater then the Pre and DAC it was replacing. I probably will some day, try either PC software or a Behringer unit, if it makes a big enough difference I may go for Tact.
This may help with a couple of room nodes, but the room will still be shit compaired to my previous. And no amount of software and EQ in a poor room is going to be as good as a superb room with standard quality equipment, I feel.

Cables on the other hand, are only subjectively capable of very fine tuning, if the system ain't got it, these ain't going to add it. But, I have had some surprises with cable, the one I have mentioned a few times being Naim Nac5 suiting a particular amp better than Van Den Hul D-352, with the Nac5, bass slam and definition was improved, and the amp went louder before clipping, at the expense of poorer treble performance?

I hae not found Chord Signature to be bright or forward, rather the opposite? Very clean and transparent, Though I am sure there may be better sysnergy with Transparent cables and the chosen electronics in that system.

I seriously think the Van Damme 1.5mm cable which is about 6m + going into my CV's is holding back performance?

Another was the performance of digital cables, the choice was Eichmann or Chord Pro Digital, and with various Transports through the DAC, the Eichmann gave a poorer performance, where everything seemed smaller and reccessed between the speakers. The Chord was much clearer with a fuller soundstage of proper proportion with imaging outwith the speakers?

 

Tis a tricky one that Stereo M, though I have been reliably informed by (Tones the sane one ) that crystals has an unearthly knack of 'sniffing out' the best sound when used in the following manner 'Stand with feet slightly apart, hold appropriate crystal 'attached with audiophile Platinum grade wire' and chant vigorously 'Oh magic crystal of the stars show me the best sound today'
Carefully follow these highly worked out procedures in accordance with sound diviners & ghost seekers handbook ( Dereck Accora's 3rd edition is most pertinent for gleening the last once of sound dowsing by all accounts).
Repeat this 'audio seeking' 3 times, whilst keeping the the captivated individual mesmerised with a ancient arcane chanting ritual invoking the spirits of the 'dielectric constant' & 'rare earth elements', thus ensuring status as a Shaman of signals.

 

Sastusbulbas,

I have owned and lived with the Tact. Also the DEQX and of course CARA. I have owned Van Den Hul, Chord, Naim and Transparent cables.

If you would like any advice on the enormous gulfs in performance enhancements available from the former in comparison with the latter feel free to ask.

This is in my opinion an important difference. I'm not sat on a forum pontificating and hypothesising. I am relaying real experiences both subjective and objective.

But if you want to go with the cable camp, fancy trying a blind test?

 

Now that's what I want to be. Do you think there's a degree course in Signals Shamanism somewhere?

 

Joel,

Being only a mere mortal, and not capable of understanding such other worldly events or etiquette, my very limited knowledge on cerebrally taxing matters such as these are indeed sparse.
Though I suspect somewhere (near just above middle England up the M1) there maybe such a hallowed place of learning and stature.
Do you feel it would be worth while in trying to procure a place?, with eon's of carefully study and methodical dutiful work, perhaps we to could attain Shaman-ship?

 

Imagine the ability to leave your body and fly spiritually to others hifi systems. To hunt the Great Elephant Cock Cable, run with the lesser Striped Silver Connector, or pass through the stygian depths of the ShunMook underworld only to emerge in a newer, brighter Beltian Dawn....
What horizons, what esoteric ;-) knowledge, what POWER.
My god man, the path to Tweeked Enlightenment is the spiritual necessity of the new age, even if it's earthly incarnation is to be found in Macclesfield or some such.

 

Hi Stereo.

I am unsure I want to belong to any camp or sit on any side of the fence

I have plenty of cables of various prices and quality, and to be honest, unless expensive cables such as Transparent, Chord Signature or XLO are on offer at stupidly low prices I don't think I will be purchasing anything other than required for specifics. For instance, I will probably buy a 5m pair of 4mm core copper Neutrik leads to replace the thin Van Damme, and may still be after speaker cable suitable for single runs up to 100ft.

I have full cable looms here of Chord Anthem, Chorus, Chameleon Silver+, and Chord Rumour, Odyssey, Signature, for a couple of my systems. Plus a skip with plenty of other cable types and brands. I settled with the Chord as I found it worked well with a few systems I was using, and of course Signature was a bit of an indulgence that I, at times, question.

Cables though, I feel are not my problem. It's my room, poor construction, plasterboard, suspended floors above and below, L shaped etc etc. And to top this I cannot stand small speakers or a lack of low frequency extension , this situation will again change, as the said room is in need of re-decoration badly, a 1yr old going on 2 and a 3yr old going on 4, the carpet will probably have to be replaced with laminate flooring, and a divider/shelf set put up at the small apex of the L etc etc, the room can be seen on the Crooked path forum (its very embarasing how poor the decor is, my appologies for the poor taste).

Financialy, at this moment, I am not in a situation to do much about room EQ or tuning. But even when I had funds I questioned the worth of room EQ, (though I think the Tact user forums put me off also). What were you preferences, equipment choices and reasons for using the Tact, DEQX and Clara? Do you think starting at the bottom with a cheap Behringer unit is worthwhile?

 

Mic, i'm confused, what exactly is the difference between pete and co hearing differences in sound after swapping cables in sighted tests and you moving things around in your room after looking at cad data and listening to things.

both are sighted and both are in response to listening tests.

Why do you use Cara at all, do you not trust your ears implicitly, it is at best a weak tool for the job. it can only convolve between 1-3000 points, which is little more use than taking a tape measure to calculate room nodes based on wavelength.

 

Some prefer lady boys from the far east, I will stick with my young bride from the Baltics...

 

Is there an audio accessory that will give me both at the same time?

 

Only if you become a Shaman of Signals, Markus.
OTOH, having a Baltic bride and a ladyboy at the same time is a simple question of deepish pockets and negotiating skills

 

And taste, I will add...

Unless you are a voyeur...

 

Perhaps a compromise could be Shaman of the Young Firm Flesh

 

Seems to me that anyone who pays a fortune for a cable-of ANY description is a mug.
Anyone who relies on computer software is also a mug.
Also anyone that thinks there's such a thing as a 'perfect frequency response' is just as much a victim of snakeoil as the former.
Just as the cable victims(I'm talking esoteric bollocks variety here) are misled by the shamans the software suckers are misled by the readout creeds.
There's enough info out there to explain why B&W, Tannoy, ATC etc regard ANY EQ ing as a BAD thing, should be avoided and only used very very sparingly.
And SM, the very long list of equipment/cables etc you are inclined to inform people of that you have owned would indicate to me that this process you dogmatically follow and scatter all over this and other forums like a mad womans shit doesn't actually work, which is possibly why you come across as so analy angry.
I think it's bloody hilarious..but ultimately sad.

 

One can be backed up by objective data. The other of course cannot. One change is real. The other in the mind.