Cable directionality & cables

Well, what about it? Let's have a chat about this.

In my experience there is no such thing. There doesn't seem to be any plausible scientific explanation for this alleged phenomenon, so how did the notion arise in the first place? With 'serious' companies like Naim, for example, telling us that their interconnects and power supply cables are directional, how does the average Joe in the street like you and me counter this idea? If we challenge it, the obvious implication is that our hearing/perception isn't sensitive enough to detect the differences, and we (as serious audiophiles, mind you) don't want to be thought of as 'deaf'. So it's much easier and happier for all if we go along with the idea. You've got to connect the cables one way or the other, so you might as well connect them in the 'correct' way, eh? Fair enough.

If we do this, then the idea of directionality has already caught on in our minds by the power of suggestion/peer pressure to conform. Connecting them up the wrong way makes us feel mildly uncomfortable. What if I'm missing out on something? Is the treble OK? Etc. Once we start to worry, we can't relax when listening, and it all starts to sound awful. This reinforces the concept in our minds because we actually CAN hear a difference. And so it goes on.

There is a particularly silly thread on the Naim side at the mo' about 'Burndy' cables which connect the CDS player 'head unit' (transport, DAC etc) with its 24v DC power supply. The usual suspects are there, sagely pronouncing upon the differences which are allegedly audible if you reverse the Burndy. I think that they believe in what they are saying, in fact I'm sure they do. If they didn't believe it, then they wouldn't be able to hear the 'differences'. But the reason that they can hear these differences is that they believe in cable directionality. Rather like a religion, the idea is reinforced by authority figures.

My Naim dealer brought the new improved (£250) Burndy cable round to my place a few weeks ago for me to try out. Neither of us could hear any difference at all between it and the old one, which if you think about it rationally, is fair enough, really. At least he was honest enough to say that he couldn't hear any difference. All it is is an electrical cable carrying 24v DC. It is not in the signal path. But the cable directionality type of mindset tells us that it must be better: it's been 'improved' by Naim R&D and costs £250, so it absolutely must be better, mustn't it?

This is not a Naim-bash, btw, they are all at it.

 

If you make a cable with two cores and a shield, where you connect the shield at one end only....you have made a dirrectional cable as you have a choice at which end the cable shield is grounded. FACT

Its less certain if you will be able to hear the difference.

Are you asking about mains cable, do they work ? Well of course they don't, how could a short length of cable make any difference!!

In fact at Jullian's recently this was proved beyond doubt. Both the DIY mains cable and Omega's superdooper cable provided serious sonic gains over the stock cable on the Naim gear to which it was fitted.

 

Dr McPeake

I cannot comment on the difference between the old and new bundy because I have not done the comparison. MyCDS3 has a new bundy and the whole system sounds great.

However I have to agree with your comment re directionality and super cables etc.....it is just plain bullshit and a licience to print money by charaltans in the trade. That is what I like about Naim, NACA5 and honest to goodness interconnects.

All these bright coloured cables at £20 plus a metre are sold to mugs.

At the end of the day, you cannot blame the trade for selling the stuff as it is caveat emptor.

Regards

Mick

 

The power of suggestion is so strong, Zanash, that we have to evaluate new drugs by comparing them with inactive placebos.

How does this make it 'directional'?

Of course it wasn't.

 

Hi Mick,

But NAC A5 has little arrows on it to indicate its 'directionality'. At least it's relatively cheap.

Regards,

James

 

James,

Your system probably isn't transparent enough.

 

Nice one.

 

well i certainly heard the difference when the 'better' mains cables were plugged into my cd5.
as for cable directionality? who cares, i stick to the way naim say not cos i think it sounds better but because i'd rather just get on with listening to music without doubts about 'would it sound better'. if that makes me a sheep then baa be it.
as for my speaker cables well i use townshend isolda dct with my 250 so if i put that on the wrong way round my amp goes bang (there is a zobel network at the amp end) so i guess for that one directionality is important.
otherwise yes i've heard a difference with some cables when i have played however it's not massive and well within the bounds of psychosomatic imagining so wtf...
cheers


julian

 

My point is that perceiving a difference doesn't prove a difference.

No it doesn't 'make you a sheep', but it plants the notion of directionality in your mind.

 

The Burndy only supplies power but the power requirements, at least of the analogue section are signal dependant. If the music is loud, the player draws more current from the supply. Doesn't mean it should be audible but there is a possible mechanism.

Don't know why you get so "up" about all of this stuff. People buy everything on the power of suggestion its how advertising works.
Just get a couple more levels of Mana, at least with Mana we have a scientific explanation proven in double blind tests over many years ;->

Cheers

Jason

 

Zanash raised an issue which needs defining. Buyers need to be aware that it is possible to make a cable that is deliberately directional eg by connecting a shield only at one end. This effect would be system dependent. An attenuated or filtered I/C is directional as well.

The other topic, is directionality in plain wire, which I think is garbage. So if someone says their cable is directional, the correct response is 'why?'

 

Yes Jason, but Mana will reveal, for example, the difference between a tom-tom drum & a bass drum. It has also enabled me to hear previously unintelligible lyrics on records/CDs which I've owned & listened to for years.

That's what I call a 'difference'.

There would have to be a fault with the Burndy for this to be possible.

 

>>> There would have to be a fault with the Burndy for this to be possible.

Not really, if you believe AC signal cables have an effect at all then the Burndy could also affect the circuits downstream of it. The cable is a resistor. More current means more voltage is lost down it so the circuits in teh player see a power supply voltage which is a function of the current and hence the signal they are amplifying. The amopunt of audibility depends on the Power supply rejection ratio of the circuits (ie how well designed they are to ignore fluctuations in the power supply voltage). Since Naim CD players are internally regulated this should be a microscopicly small effect but doesn't nmean it is broken, badly designed yes, but not broken.

One of your problems with this cable thing is the lack of science and "proof". But Mana is exactly the same, you (and me although with different conclusions) live in a belief bubble. In most cases changing the sound of gear by removing a bit of vibration from some electronics (not turntables obviously) defies scientifc and engineering explanation. Yes components are microphonic but so microphonic that we can hear the results? The same engineers and scientisits laughing at the cable junkies also laugh at the stand fetishists.

Cheers

Jason

 

The same engineers and scientisits laughing at the cable junkies also laugh at the stand fetishists.

Well, some recording studios are using Mana supports, but anyway this is a little off topic. My own theory about removing vibrations is that the main effect is probably on the cable connections round the back, funnily enough.

We couldn't hear a difference with the Burndy. Modesty forbids me from suggesting that my system is fairly 'transparent'.

I fail to see how signal cables could ever be directional because music is 'AC' isn't it?

 

Just to put that into persective, some recording studios are using Fat Mains Cables, Kimber interconnects, and paying attention to directionality and installation. Guess even engineers will try anything for a laugh, especially if it is provided free of charge

 

"I fail to see how signal cables could ever be directional because music is 'AC' isn't it?" devils Quote.

Its not a failure to see but a failure to understand even rudementry signal transmission topology.

To play devils advocate....in Noddy speak

The audio signal is in effect an AC output ie the big red wire and the big blue wire carry both forward and backward flowing waves of electrons modulated to produce sound in the amp.....do you understand so far or am I going to fast.

If you put a shield arround the big red and big blue wires ....without connection to ground it has little or no effect other than to add capactance to the wire [oh yes a wire can be look at as a curcuit, that has all the normal electrical characteristics]

If you change the big blue insulation you will change the electrical character of the wire and therefore its effect on any signal passed. Similarly the red insulation and even the typeof metal used.

Now if you ground the shield this will drain any potential [thats an electrical term] created by RFI/EMI [ie the wire will act as an aerial, injecting all manner of nasties into both the source and destination component]. You can connect the shield to both ends of the Big red/blue wire, but this runs the risk of creating ground loops.So the ratonal goes that the shield is connected at one end only, lets call it the big green end.

Are you still with me?

Now that allows you two ways of connecting the IC.
If you connect the big red/blue wire between source [CDplayer] and Destination component [amp] with the big green end to the source ...any unwanted potential is feed to the source. The second way is to connect the big green end to the destination component.

Now a cable Manufacturer will have designed his special cable to work best with the unwanted signals draining to one side or other. So to make life easy for for the enthusiast, he denotes the end that should be connected to the source, or the route the music signal should go, hence the arrows.

Now that was not too complicated was it.

But I here you cry my IC has only two wire and its still got arrows on it....Well when the metal is drawn from the ingot crystal boundries form and are as we know likened to semi conductors. So to keep the orientation between the two cables the same often arrow are marked on the outer jackets.


This again does not mean that the cloth eared will be able to tell any difference, nor do I agree that cables are directional in the terms of your original question...this is just Noddy's simplified explanation of the how and whys of cable topology and why certain markings appear on cables.
I have currently no affiliation to any cable makers and no axe to grind!

PS what manna got to do with the original question ?

 

Yep, seems a load of bollocks to me aswell. I just tend to follow instructions blindly when it comes to directionality. But again just because there is no accepted sciebnce doesn't mean it isn't happening. Your theory about Mana affecting the connections is laughable from a purely scientific perspective just like putting cones under amps and inflatable stands, we know it makes a difference we just can't explain why.


Merlin,

Naughty, naughty ...


Cheers

Jason

 

Hi Zanash. Thank you for your patronising post, which fails to explain how a wire carrying an AC signal can ever be 'directional'.

Your theory about Mana affecting the connections is laughable from a purely scientific perspective

I don't know. If the cable connectors, DIN or RCA or whatever, are rattling around in their sockets, wouldn't there be a more secure and consistent contact between pin & socket if the rattling is diminished/abolished?

 

I can see the logic that certain materials both conductors and insulators can effect the properties of a cable A larger cross sectional area will be able to carry more current before it overheats etc.
As far as sound quality and directionality go though i just can't get that to compute. Surely AC power cables, Analogue Signal Interconnects and Speaker cables have an Alternating current flowing through them, which in my simple terms means that for the first half of a cycle they are flowing in one direction and for the second half of the cycle they are flowing in the opposite direction, which to my simple mind makes the fancy little direction arrows printed on or stuck on the side of the cable complete arse, or am i getting some fundamental part of AC power theory completely wrong ? I really need to know now though as i have a 4th !! attempt at my Electrical Fundamentals exam in just 4 weeks time, Ahhh ! .

 

I personally enjoy putting cables the "wrong" way round. I have long observed that it makes not a ha'p'orth of difference.