CD rethink time?

OK. I think need to rethink my system. I find that I've all but given up on CD due to total dissatisfaction with the sound. All the usual suspects seem to apply - hard treble, shallow image, rock music in particular fares very badly.

I've been a/bing my Cyrus CD against an aged Mission DAD5/Meridian 203 (DAC7 version) combo and I have to say that I'm hard pushed to tell the difference!

The question is: where to make the change? Do I just replace the Cd player and if so, with what? or is this a synergy problem (CD, bright amp and bass shy speakers)? I don't have massive amounts of cash so a certain amount of reselling will be required to finance any changes and (for domestic harmony reasons) changing the speakers is probably out for now.

Current set - up is as follows:

Gyro SE/Orbe upgrades/VC motor controller/Origin Live RB300/Elys2
Cyrus CD8/PSX-R
Cyrus8/Smartpower (Bi-amp mode)
Monitor GR10
QED Silver Anniversary Cables and QuNEX Interconnects
The room is 19 x 12 feet - speakers fire down the length of the room.

Any advice appreciated...

John

 

My first thought would be that all of your components (apart from the excellent vinyl front end) are recognised as exhibiting some, or all, of the traits you mention! If I hadn't first read your observations on the sound, your comments would be exactly how I would have expected the system to sound.

CD players probably have the least (initially) obvious differences. Your comments on the similarity between the CD8 and the Meridian don't surprise me. The Meridian was top gear in its day and always remember that newer does not necessarily equal better. If it sounded good in the 90s it'll sound good now! As you've found out for yourself, major changes in performance will probably not come from changing your front end.

You'll get the most difference in sound by changing your speakers. After you're happy with those (most difficult component to get right, IMHO), then you can fine tune with cables, interconnects, etc.

Recommendations are difficult without a budget, but my favourite small monitor is the Harbeth HLP3-ES2.

On the system re-arrange front, Cyrus kit does hold its value quite well, allowing the possible financing of some chopping and changing. But my advice would be to keep the Cyrus gear for the time being and try different speakers first. Always try speakers at home.

 

The QED SA does not work with Cyrus and rock music, a better choice would be to change to Chord Odyssey. This would be a cheapish starting point.
You should also think about adding another Smart to the system to really give those speakers the power they need to really sing.

 

I can't see how adding another smartpower would make much difference since I'm bi-amping already - or are you suggesting running them in mono?

 

I had a cyrus cd and amp and sold the amp on e-bay, they fetch great prices, the PSX-R went for more twelve months old than I paid for it new! I would certainly have a look at a Sugden A21 amp and Creek Evo CDP, ignore what people say about the Sugden needing 'the right speakers' etc, just have a listen and prepare to be delighted!
I bought the Cyrus stuff on the strength of reviews, big mistake, I was surprised and frustrated when I heard Sugden and Creek gang up on my Cyrus. So I bought Accuphase.

 

Yes, but after changing that SA,you will lose that shallow sound you currently have and coupled with the change of cables you will lose that hard edge to the treble.You may also wish to have a look at the I/Cs as well at the same time as the speaker cables as it may save you a packet in the long run.

It maybe worth posting a question over on Cyrusunofficial as Im sure the guys over there have been through this many a time.

 

Get rid of the cyrus.

 

2 questions - Why and what with ?
I dont think that statement is really helping John.

 

The Quinex is a serious under performer .....start by looking at even the simplest DIY alternative ie cat5 and a set of cheap plugs. Connect Cdp to pre and spin a few discs. Are you hearing any change ....? If you need help to build an Ic pm me.

if yes the system has sufficient resolving power

if no then the system is being strangled somewhere.


Looking at your system the cables look a bit low end for the rest of the gear. i'm no fan of cyrus ....but you must have bought it as it suited your tastes at the time.

The alternative is to get out and hear a few systems and see what you like .......just don't blindly spend your dosh!

 

Thanks for the input. I posted here rather than than there to get a broader view - Cyrusunofficial being in-practice quite a 'pro-cyrus' forum. I should add that the system as a whole does many things very well - particularly acoustic music, the problems start when I wan't to crank it up a bit with rock on CD: it just sounds imbalanced and thin. The room is quite reflective too which doesn't help. The vinyl side of things sounds great - even with very aggressive material (Shellac/Gang of Four et al). I'm leaning towards ebaying the C8/Smartpower and possibly the PSX-R and maybe spending up to ~ £1000 on a replacement amp. Sugden has been mentioned, any alternatives? There must be loads at that price point?

 

Look to your cables can't say it any plainer ...!

 

QED, Cyrus and MA. System from the planet of hard uninvolving music imo. You like the presentation from your TT so i guess you like a more analytical presentation. This is good. A change of IC is worth exploring but i suspect a diffent CDP is the answer. How much do you want to spend? Can you home demo from your local dealer?

 

Maybe if your quick?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Marantz-CD-63...9740379901QQcategoryZ3272QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Apparently more analogue than most:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rega-Planet-C...oryZ3272QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Analytical but rocking is what I'm after! My turnatable is a thing of beauty but even this is a little harsh at present (although not in comparison to the CD8). I'm not going to wade in and replace the CD immediately - I'll try Zanash's cable suggestion first - but I suspect speaker cables may also be an issue. Unfortunately, due to the siting of my system, I need 6m runs (bi-amped too!) which makes any change rather risky moneywise.

 

Try this!2.5 stuff is cheap and excellent IMO.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=13295&doy=18m6&C=SEO&U=strat15

 

I live in NW wales. There are no local dealers! Chester is the nearest, then Manchester. So probably not.

 

If you're biamping, I take it you have a seperate preamp. If that's the case, consider running a long pre-out lead to amps placed between the speakers. It sounds better that way round, plus it's cheaper to get 4 runs os speaker cable adding up to twice the speaker separation.

 

In my experience Cyrus CD players are a bit bright. So that could be the issue.

I would also ask what you have in your room in terms of furnishing. Do you have a thick carpet or wooden floors? Lots of shelves over the walls or is it pretty bare? The GR10 is a lively speaker so if you have pretty bare walls at the first reflection point this could be the issue. If the TT is more rolled-off in the treble you wouldn't notice it as much but you might like to see if that is the actual cause of the problem or not. For an experiment try putting some thick towels on the side walls at the first reflection points.

(A first reflection point is the point where sound from the speaker only needs to bounce once to reach you in your chair. To find these, sit in your listening position and get someone to slide a mirror flat down the wall. Where you can see your speaker in the mirror is a first reflection point)

 

i still second the idea that you should try some VDH cables in that system

CS-122 is a lovely rich smooth sounding cable combine that with something like D-102 mkIII and that should help sort some of the thinness that will no doubt be caused by the cheap QED interconnects and Silver anniversary.

Beyond that speakers would be an idea. as would running two smartpowers in mono (more gutsy) but idealy if you want to stick with cyrus look at moving to more rich sounding members of their range. the original APA7's are quite smooth and refined sounding amps with good bass power. They can be had fairly cheaply.