CD5i = muffled - very unimpressed...

I went for a rather interesting dem yesterday; in search for a new CDP, I decided to dem the new and hyped up Naim CD5i. Rest of the system in dem was:
NAIT5
NACA5
Dynaudio 52s

First up, and in isolation, was the CD5i. Put on Air's Moon Safari to start and I quite liked it - although it had a 1960s remix on things - everything was either left/middle/right - and pans didn't work at all... Put on various other stuff from Evenescance to the Back to Titanic soundtrack and it all grooved rather nicely, but everything was either as Air (60s remix) or jumbled into a soggy mass between the speakers. PRaT was good...

We then stuck the Rega Planet 2000 (with the new lid) in. OHMYGOD. The 5i was totally slaughtered! It sounded muffled as hell compared to the Rega, though the Rega had a rougher top end (but at least it had some). The Planet was cold - the 5i was warmed up... I could have lived with the Planet - and if I had, I'd have not spent any money...

Next up - a cold Rega Jupiter. Hmm - like the Planet but better - more realistic sounding strings on Love for example. As with the 5i I could just listen to the music rather than the equipment, but the muffledness of the Naim in comparison was its downfall.

FInally, I got them to wheel out a straight CD5 to work out if it was the all-Naim approach causing the muffledness. Aaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!! Lovely. OK so old-skool Naimies might not think the 5 has enough groove but it wasn't THAT far behind the 5i in this area, and more than double the performance IMHO. As with the Jupiter, it had more of everything and strings etc sounded excellent.

I have the 5 on home dem at the moment - a bit unsure what to make of it but it's working well in the system. Very different to the Planet Mk1 I have, but more get up and go, and more musical. I think it might be a keeper... Got until Tuesday to keep demming it...

 

A most unusual review Dom, was everything alright with the 5i?

I have heard most naim kit called anything you like, but never muffled.

 

Dom,

Couldn't agree more about the CD5i sounding muddled, but that's when it's not run in.

Mine really didn't sound good at all for the first 2 weeks, and is only now cleaning up. Took my Nait 5 two months to fully run in.
So my guess it they dem'd a run in CD5 against a non run in CD5i.

 

Minor correction, they were actually Audience 42's, as confirmed by my nosing around the back.

Hmm, well I can confirm as well that in relation to the other CDP's we directly compared the 5i against, it did seem profoundly "veiled". Curious? Or maybe it could just be argued that it's strengths/priorities lay more with fundamental aspects of the music i.e. it's phrasing and (re- )structuring of the rhythmic message was certainly still Naim-like to my ears. Whereas the other players by comparison were doing the "hi-fi niceities (as well).

Break in could certainly be a factor. Afterall, when Dom phoned the shop at the beginning of the week to see if the 5i was yet in stock, he was given an answer to the negative. But when we turned up yesterday, it was there waiting for us in the dem room warming up. So at most, assuming there was no factory burn in done, the player at most only a had a couple of days break in. Who knows... Will Dom be able to resist the temptation of signing on the dotted line after the home dem of the 5 and do some more careful home dems of the other players, or will impulsive impataience "must have a new toy to play with NOW" strike again?!

Oh FWIW, the 5i was dem'd with the standard Naim DIN-DIN lead, whereas the Rega players were both connected up to the Nait using Chord DIN-phono cable [can't remember if the CDS5 was connected up via its DIN or phono outputs]. But hey, do i/c's matter anyway?!

 

Dom,

My CD5i will be going to the bake off at Julians in early Feb. I'd certainly expect it to be burnt in by then.
So ask us for the results post the test.

I believe Zanash is taking his rather tasty Quad along, which should be an interesting comparison as it's not much more cash.
On top of that, it's got dig inputs, which to me seems like a stunning idea.

 

Hi Mr_Sukebe,

Are you now hanging onto the 5i afterall? Thought you had some more cash to blow on something up bit higher up the Naim range?

 

not being funny, but isnt that part of the whole Naim sound? i.e. screw the detail and concentrate on the rhythmic aspects of the sound? I certainly heard this in evidence on a top end Naim system last weekend, but I am not sure if that was just down to the Briks. It was enjoyable though.

 

Mr Sukebe - I found the (probably ~4 days' worth of run in) 5i was *muffled* - it was very muddled as well, but it sounded like someone had turned the treble down - it was really shut in. Now I'd expect electronics to improve with running in, but suddenly gaining loads more treble - I'm not so sure...

The 5 was cold (but run in) - I'd expect a totally cold CDP to be outperformed by one that's warm but not run in - especially if my Rega Planet's anything to go on when cold.... The 5's making some rather good sounds in my system and I'm noticing just how much more realistic vocals etc actually sound on this player over the Rega Planet I usually use - just more of everything. A couple of things with the soundstaging are a little odd, but that's not what I go for in the first place - though I like to be able to follow what's going on. I found the 5i to be just too garbled in this respect and I'm not sure I could live with it - I certainly wouldn't pay £875 on one based on the sound we had on Saturday.

The 5 though is different - quite impressed. The Jupiter was as good, but different, but I didn't like the flimsy feel when compared to the Naim - brick outhouse is a fair description.

Henry - the 5 was hooked up via Naim's DIN/DIN lead; the Regas were using Chord Cobra I think - the same one I have on my Planet anyway.

BTW Heny - I took the Eupen off and used the stock Naim power lead last night and it sounds a lot better to how you guys heard it on Saturday - oddly enough...

 

dom,
if you want to give the cd5 a soundstage, put it on a seismic sink. kind of kills the prat though. i guess some other means of support may enable you to get both but for my money i'd get one of russ andrews power pak 3's and marvel at the difference for 160 quid. it's not as good as a hicap but it bettered my flatcap 1 after it had warmed up a bit, about on a par with a flatcap 2 for 1/3rd the price. go on hammer that credit card.

cheers


julian

 

The "(re-)interpretation" aspect that I've come across from other Naim kit that I've listened to in the past was certain in evidence on the 5i. I was sitting off axis in the dem, and believe it or not was overall less bothered about things like staging/imaging and even the "muffled" quality. It was just to my ears that the Rega players sounded more much more natural with a *wider range musical styles* than the 5i did, but that's just my particular set of requirements. The 5 was certainly IMO a good half way house betwen the 5i and Rega (Jupiter) - quite inoffensive for a Naim IMO (which I know some could see as a downfall). I actually found myself switching off on certain track on the 5i, just goes to show how different we all are, but could see its appeal for certain types of music and particular recording styles - indie rock/punk/grunge/etc anyone.

That doesn't surprise me in the least! But I was surprised you didn't have it hooked up with the stock Naim power lead in the first place, do you remember me asking as much?

 

He he he - funny you should say that Julian - Ian and I were talking about the Russ Andrews Powerpaks while walking to collect the CD5 for home dem What does it to - just power the analog stages? I hope it's not a swith mode PSU though... Do you use one?

The "lack of soundstage" wasn't bothering me at all - I'm not a big one for front->back staging anyway (never usually listen for it) and the rest is just pure class - will give it another blast tonight before packing it up for tomorrow's return.

Henry - yep - I remember you saying that. It was mere laziness on my part that I didn't put the stock one in straight away An A/B comparison using Joy Division's "Transmission" was enough to sell the stock cord to me!

 

dom,
all the external psu options for the cd5 power the analogue output stages.
yes the pp3 does use a switch mode psu but i had zero problems with it corrupting my mains and other apocrypha that has been attributed to this evil means of converting 240v 50hz ac to 24 v dc, i was using one of their yello leads though so this may have 'eaten' the evil smpsu vibes coming out of the box.
i had one to see if their claims of 'better than a hi-cap' were true, unfortunately they weren't and the hi-cap gave much better bass. the pp3 was maybe slightly better at the treble, midrange was on a par and as i said bass was just nowhere near as impactful or controlled. the fc 1 i have was also pressed into service to compare, bass was about the same as the pp3 but mid and treble wasn't as defined or tuneful. as i was hoping to replace the hi-cap with a pp3 and use the hi on my pre (a nait 5 at that point) i felt it wasn't a good deal for me and sent it back but if you have no psu and can;t go for a hi-cap immediately then the pp3 is a bit of a no brainer. the only downside i can see is that you'll get pennies back when you come to upgrade to a hi-cap.
cheers


julian

 

So a Hicap is the way then? Your Flatcap's not as good as the PP3 then? If it were up for sale how much would you punt it for (all hypothetical of course!)?

The CD5 was sounding very good with Nirvana, Beverly Craven, Go-gos and god knows what else earlier this evening. It's now back in the box ready to go home but if Audio-Excellence don't have any in stock I'm going to see if I can haggle the CD5 with Flatcap at a good price and bring it back to my rig again

BTW the RDC platform I used under the Planet seems to benefit the CD5 as well...

I put the Planet back in tonight and it sounded overbright and rough in comparison to the CD5 - so I can't go back to it now.

Interestingly the CD5 doesn't reveal things like tape/mic hiss so much (like on Carol Decker's vocals on "Valentine") compared to the Rega, but the information you want to hear is still tere... Cool!

 

Dom, would you consider s/h? £1100 - 1200 would get you a not very old CDX which is a whole different ball-game to the CD5 even with a power-supply. There seem to be a lot of them about at the moment as people get CDX2s.

 

Only if Audio-Excellence have one in tomorrow...

Seriously though if I was getting one it'd HAVE to be dealer sold - a grand is a shedload of cash for me to gamble and the ones on Epay are a defo no-no...

 

dom,
the hi-cap is definately the one to go for 2nd hand they seem to be increasing in price but this is hi-fi season so things will probably settle down soon. hy hi-cap would be about 450 ukp and my flatcap about 200 (hypothetically of course).
as for a cdx, well some swear by them however cd players are one of the things that i'm very wary of buying 2nd hand as they are mechanical devices that can wear and deteriorate. also i believe the cdx has a different kind of presentation to the cd5 so if you like the cd5 the improvements you get from the cdx may not suit you. certainly whenever i've heard one it's seemed a little 'raw' shall we say, however this has always been through a 102/hi/180/allaes so that may have had something to do with it too. at the end of the day it's down to taste really.
cheers


julian

 

MY CD5 is now warming up with Status Quo's "Rocking all over the years" in it (the longest CD I own - >80 mins)... Nice lack of bank balance...

Now - if someone can tell me if I need that damping pad under the middle RDC cone on the platform I use, I need to know ('cos I've lost it...)

 

So I take it you went back to the shop and swapped the borrowed one for a spanking new one??

BTW, never mind the RDC platform and Target rack, you'll need to start saving up for a Fraim now!

 

How about your Dutch cap Julian? Price/performance?

 

Bounces well!