Chain list reviews

I posted this on Pink Fish, but I would like your opinion too. Perhaps the same here or as a joint venture.

Richard

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Sitting thinking over my cup o' cha in a break from soldering, I was thinking about the old chain letter things, like the golden circle in the 80's (my sis made £10k from that one, I came in too late).

Hows about a chain review.

The process:-

One of the list bodgers puts up a product for review (you wont get the mainstream types yet, but yer never knows, if it works......) as a thread.

Smelly fishies volunteer (and lists system and why they want to listen) and the bodger picks say four of them. Bodger sends to #1 on the list, that fishy gets, say for example, one week to play (time set by bodger) and then has responsibility (and cost) to forward it on to the next in the chain etc etc until the last one sends back to the bodger. All results published as a review on the thread, maybe photos etc (get yer writing skills honed, it may become a career, the mags may be watching )

Each fishy is responsible for the product when it is with him and damage will be reported by next down the line.

I am willing to play - wadya fink????

Obviously anonimity will have to be put on hold for this one.

Richard

 

Interesting concept ........I'll have to think it through.

 

This will now be the only forum I use. AND this offer and idea will only be here.

The owner at Pink Fish decided to send me a bill for £50 for doing this can you believe it

Richard

 

Yup I am up for it!
S

 

me too

Great idea, I'm in....

 

We have in the past run said schemes for some of the controversial tweaks, such as the Demagic CD or the green pen.

Please note AUP statement over not bringing things from other forums to be aired here.

 

In the DeMagic etc thing the voodoo kit maker didn't get to pick who reviewed the thing, whereas the maker does in this proposal. That's one disadvantage that I see for the forum as a whole having some kind of belief in the results. The second is that the probably bigger insurance and postage costs would more easily outweigh the supposed benefits to the reviewer of having something to play with for a week. (After all, I can get that from my dealer now.) So, speaking for myself I would respectfully decline to be a reviewer.

 

This would be just another nail in the coffin for dealers (I am not a dealer). There are many who think that it's very clever to use (abuse) dealers by having shop and home dems and then buying wherever thay can find an item for the cheapest price.

This particular idea is full of problems. Suppose kit arrives damaged/not working. The recipient then reports to the previous 'reviewer' who says 'nothing to do with me, fine when it left here'. Who then claims on the carrier? Who is responsible to the original 'manufacturer'?

If NVA, or whoever, want to offer trials then that's fine. But all arrangements should be directly between manufacturer/distributor/etc and the trialer. Trials would be a fine method or promoting ineterest and sales. To my mind, offering a full refund if not happy is not quite the same thing, as many may feel uncomfortable with this as they may feel that they need to justify their return and the possibility exists that refunds may not be so easily forthcoming. This is no direct comment on the NVA offering, incidentally. However, the retail world is replete with stories of 'full refunds if not satisfied' never appearing.

 

OK lets look at motivation.

My motivation in proposing this is not commercial. I have more orders that I can cope with at the moment and I am restricting listings to get delivery time back down.

As I have said before, and I repeat - nva is not my major source of income - I teach Tai-Chi and Qigong - I make some to keep the name alive and to provide a service point for old product.

My purpose for being here and at other lists is not commercial, it is motivated by community and what I see as the future of our industry. I have deliberately, on all forums, not promoted my products or initiated discussion on my products. I have ONLY replied (in ALL my dealing with ALL forums) to questions asked. Yet I now discover that the motivation on these forums is financial and not community. Plus they are selective in how they respond and give information and publish private posts. I am very pleased that Zerogain is not like this and will continue to post here with pleasure if allowed by the very fair moderation that seems to apply here.

OK back to the thread. If any are concerned over commerciality I will quite happily ban anybody who gets my product for review from buying it

The concept was initiated in my mind by bake-offs and my visit to Bottleneck and the constant reference (not so much here) as to the validity and honesty of magazine reviews. In my day of dealing with them I found them to be generally honest, but other factors influenced results. More to do with agenda and individuality than financial gain. Plus we are all "trainspotters" otherwise we would not be here, and loco numbers are listening to products (and of course music ), that is what we want to do.

Bake offs have time restraints, and "listen to mine, listen to mine" syndrom. At the moment people who get or hear new product can post their feeling here, this is just an idea to extend this.

I think long term it would be a good idea to promote it, starting with the bodgers and cablers here on this forum. I just volunteered myself to get the ball rolling. It is part of our hobby, it should be fun and informative, not commercially motivated. You may not believe me but I would not give a toss if someone liked it or not as long as they are honest - that is the point!!!

Richard

 

If you've got a ton of work, are not interested in new business but want to serve the community, why not simply buy off ebay some kit you are interested in hearing about, circulate it round, then sell it on ebay (or to the reviewer most interested) at the end?

What would be the point for us of reading reviews of your kit that you are too busy to supply?

 

Your splitting hairs and creating motivations that don't exist. Making the odd extra bit of kit is no problem and it can always be sold as second stock latter, as all review kit by all manufacturers are.

Why should I do as you say it has no logic, your suggestion, you do it!

Effem, Zanash, Les W (is he here?), and loads of other bodgers and cablers. If it works there could be a new section for it - if it works we may start to get mainstreamers wanting to be involved. The internet is the future, we see internet mags, we see forums. This is just a logical extention. BUT I realise it is MY logic and would fully accept and welcome (less work) it going away and not happening (but perhaps a seed is planted ) as I would with doing it, no problem either way.

BTW I was not trying to brag about business just hopefully proving motivation.

Richard

 

The only things that are "unbelievable" are:

a) How cheap & reasonable the offer was, and
b) Your reaction to it.

 

James, you are very well aware of the point in the AUP I mentioned above.

There will be no more discussion of "what happened on pfm". We don't live in isolation here and we have a good relationship with pfm, but there is no need to bring any bad blood from there to here or from here to there. The AUPs on both sites reflect this.

 

At no point did I initiate promotion of my products in any way, in any post. I was asked in a thread to post when the phono units were back in production, I did. Someone then asked how much I told them! I could have said mind your own business OR I am not allowed to tell you (if I had known). That same person said he was going to Oz could he have it less VAT, I said I am too small and wish to stay that way so no VAT. THAT IS IT!!! some trade member flea shopped these posts to admin. Admin didn't have the nonse to read the thread, the ***** of money appeared.

I was not a trade member of that forum and did not want to be, and would have left if that was the way I was perceived. I reacted so badly because the very same thing happened on another forum that I have posted about here.

It is not about money in any way, in fact I would be completely willing to sponsor all the running cost for this forum or that one as my contribution to *community* as long as it stayed a private matter. What I detest is people who become all high and mighty about rules and community who use their forum as a money making venture to sell records and be payed by people for the privelege of posting and that applied to BOTH the individuals and forums involved with this.

Anyway I am now breaking another forums rules, do I get a hat trick and get banned from the three forums I joined (would that be some sort of record ). So lets consign it to history.

Richard

 

Sorry Isaac, written and posted before seeng your one.

Stum it is

Richard

 

My point is made. Cheapskate behaviour.

 

I haven't a clue who you are, and really I don't care. But it is obvious you are trying to pick a fight. Well I am sure you have your motivations and reasons, but I will not obligue. Though I would be very interested to have shown to me where in that post I became liable to that critisism

Anyway if it will lay this claim to rest please nominate a charity (genuine) and I will send them a cheque for £50. That makes far more sense to me than lining that persons pocket. Put up or shut up. I just have.

Richard

 

No, you haven’t shut up – you still appear to be in the full throws. FWIW I’m sure many can see through your attempts to freeload advertising here too.

I am completely open and honest in what I do: everyone knows I am a record dealer and pfm’s financing model is very clearly and openly stated on the forum and has been from it’s inception many years ago when it was arrived at by open consensus. I would never be seen dead masquerading behind a “review chain” or similar viral marketing techniques to place my products into folk’s homes.

If someone wants to buy a record or a trade account from me that’s fine, if they don’t that’s fine too. Invoking hissy-fits has never been my way of conducting business and I have zero respect for those who do so. This is my final post on this matter though I would encourage folk to read Richard’s ‘Im going’ thread on pfm if his behaviour has aroused any curiosity here.

Tony.

PS Sincere apologies to the other ZG moderators – I’m more than happy for this post to be deleted as I realise it, like Richard’s, breaks the AUP.

 

I run and own and moderate and finance a Tai-Chi forum with over 1400 members, I do it for the sake of the Tai-Chi commmunity. I would no more ask the members of that forum to contribute to the cost than fly to the moon with a feather between my cheeks. We have Tai-Chi student and Tai-Chi instructors and schools as members. The instructors and schools can advertise seminars and their school events freely and openly as that forum serves the community it addresses, not as a surreptitious way of making me money.

I challenge you to show ANY post I made that advertised my wares that was not made in DIRECT response to one of your members questions. Do you show them so little respect that you require me to be rude to them for the sake of your pocket?

You started this problem based on a lie, now if that lie came from a wind up from one of your "trade" members then that is your problem. If you had said "Richard I think you should be a trade member and advertise with us" I would have resigned the forum immediately with no come back. It is to be invoiced behind the view of your members I find so reprehensible. I am sure you would invoice them given half a chance.

Ditto above re removal

Richard

 

I fear at this point this thread is headed nowhere.