Changing Speakers

Thinking of changing my speakers and moving to some ceramic based speakers. Currently on the potential list are.

Pioneer S-3EX


Avalon Opus


Marten Miles III


Thought also about Kharma but there are none about in the UK in my price range.

I have heard the Pioneers and the new Avalon Indras and Eidolons (The Opus have a very similar sound to the Eidolons I understand - albeit more suited to my room size) and like the sound that both are producing. The Martens are on the list as they are in the price range and fit criteria but I havent had a chance to listen to them as yet.

Does anyone have any opinion on the above - I know the price bracket is very wide (new pioneers 3.5k approx vs second hand Opus at quite a bit more) and I doubt I am ever going to be able to listen at the same time so looking for a bit of feedback before I jump.

 

All of the ceramic driver speakers i have heard have their own peculiar colouration, I always assumed ceramic drivers were just part of the hi-end marketing kit, really need to hear these in your home.

 

I don't know about the Avalon Opus, but I have just ordered a pair of the Avalon Indra speakers after having lived with them on demo in my home for the last three weeks.

The Indra employs a variant of the tweeter designed for use in the Isis but is ceramic rather than the ultra expensive diamond version. The midrange is the ceramic bowl from the Opus and the twin 7" kevlar/nomex bass units are from the Ascendant model.

The speaker is balanced very nicely from top to toe and is capable of resolving intimate detail from the frequency extremes.

Different from other Avalon speakers I have heard (including the Eidolon and original Ascendant) the Indra has a real sense of pace and drive. The dynamics and transients are incredible but at the same time, I feel that the speaker does not add much of itself to the sound.

It's an often used cliche but they really are like a window into the system. For example, I have made minor changes to supporting the speakers over the last three weeks, swapping the supplied Apex trio of stainless spikes for first, FE Cerabase then A trio of Stillpoints and inverse Risers which really let the music flow.

For the first time, I have sat and listened to music and have been unable to locate sounds directly emanating from the speakers themselves. The images and soundstage are wide, deep and solid and populate the entire end of the room.

I have them set up in a modern room with carpet over concrete floor. Dimensions are 24' long, 11' wide and 8' ceiling.

Highly recommended!

 

I agree. The few times I've heard them, ceramics sound really "hi fi" to me, not natural. They sound impressive at first but typically fatiguing over time. I've heard many stories of people struggling to find appropriate amplification to get musicality out of them. I suspect it's very difficult if not impossible to tame all of their inherent ringing, which means complicated crossovers (e.g., trap circuits) and so forth.

IMO the engineering promise of perfectly linear passband response and low distortion in exotics like ceramic, magnesium, titanium, etc. isn't always a good recipe for musicality. I'll take "old school" paper and poly over them any day. Now tweeters I can see using exotica (at least metal domes if implemented carefully) since high frequency instruments are generally metallic anyway (e.g., cymbals). But certainly I don't feel it's good for a woofer, midrange or midwoofer that directly affects the critical midrange.

I've always been a believer that cone materials sound like what they're made of: paper sounds the most natural (if typically just a bit lean and attacking), poly sounds fuller and rounder (if a bit "plastic" and under-damped), metal sound metallic -- ringy), etc. To me plastic and poly are simply the best compromises depending on what you're looking for. Beyond those we're talking a lot more money for something that's hi fi technology for technology's sake as opposed to musical. Heaven knows we've got enough of that already in the high end. Paper and poly are also very good at self-damping (or at least decay in a musically consonant manner). Exotics aren't. I suppose the composite drivers like metal + paper and so forth achieve this self-damping requirement but, again, we're talking about a lot more money to engineer a solution around a problem that could be avoided from the start by using a more appropriate cone material.

 

Snoopdog - thanks for the info on the indras. Pretty much marries with my experience of the indras (albeit much less time than you have had).

coops - entirely possible they are all coloured but its a journey and horns which I am also interested in wont fit in my room neither will electrostatics so as I fancy a change from paper cones ceramic seems a fun journey.

 

And an expensive one....

 

not sure if colorations are a real argument against any speaker, show me a box with no coloration. not that i like the ceramic drivers but having heard eidolons in a good setup i can see why some people like them. it's just a matter of a choice of coloration you prefer.

 

Anu I agree all box speaker sound boxy, it is there nature, I just kind of feel that it's just a marketing device, I would also go for a large bass driver, they just sound so alive ,whataout something like the Usher Horn ithas a TAD 4001 mid and two 15" drivers that could be fun! Keith.
Or if you can wait a couple of months there is a new smaller Cessaro on the way, we hope to be demonstrating it at Heathrow, it is still fairly tall but slimmer.

When you are going to be spending that much it is worth trying to hear everything .

 

Love the pioneers...although not a great name in the Hi-end world but those bad boyz uses the TAD drivers since TAD is their hi end division.
Cheers