Chinese Hifi in the UK

I wanted to see what people here think about the availability of some of the new chinese high end brands here in the UK. I am considering starting a small import business and selling hi-fi on ebay from a UK source with a personal 30 day warranty. This way people don't have to worry about delivery from overseas or import taxes and could even pick up gear from my house and have a listen to it- hence pretty risk free although not quite up to dealer 2 year warranty etc.However I am curious if there is enough demand in the market to do this.

Do people here have a particular interest in any of the gear? What brands do people want to hear? Shanling/Korsun/Ming Da/Opera etc?

As an example to get your opinions I reckon some amps/cd players might sell for the following:

Korsun V8 250W integrated Red Rose OEM model - £950
Shanling CDT-100 - £1200
Shanling 50W valve monoblocks - £1500
Ming Da valve amp (OEM of Icon audio) - £400
Jolida Valve cd-player - £400
Jolida 70W valve power amp - £900

Please be aware I am not offering these for sale at the moment -this post is just to gauge people's opinion and interest.

Most of the fun for me would be to get to listen to all this new gear coming out of the east as I don't need the business to make a living.

Are there alot of people out there who want to try this stuff? Let me know your thoughts!

 

Erm just a little note, if you're selling this stuff as a new, then you have to by law offer a 1 year warranty on the products. Also I am assuming the brands would not be heared of over here, so people would be very suspicius about paying a lot of money for somthing umless it came with a decent warranty.

I just think if you're doing this for a hobby you will have trouble shifting the units, if you want to do it needs to be done properly, and that becomes more of a hobbyist thing.

Thats just my opinion anyway, I just know how snobby some UK buyers can be about brands.

 

Hi

That 1 year warranty thing, last time I spoke to trading standards I was told a warranty was not compulsory in the UK, I was in fact making an enquiry as to projector bulbs.

Stuart

 

Those prices seem on first glance still considerably more than what you can find yourself if you are willing to deal with China/Hong Kong direct. I don't think a 30 day warranty compensates. Most places I've seen advertising are offering a 1 year warranty - even if it is return to China, its still better than 30 days.

 

Aren't projector lights classed as a comsuble though? I always understood that the 1 year warranty was compulsery on new items, I thought it was just second hand or refurbished items that can get round this warranty.

 

Will have to look at offering a longer warranty - thanks for the comments.

In regards to the prices they are of course more than you get dealing direct. However many people forget to add on the 22-23% UK import taxes and postage costs which bump it up a fair bit. I also add on a profit margin to cover the risks associated with providing a full refund warranty and to make a profit of course - it is a business.

Do people think awareness of chinese hi-fi is going to grow rapidly?

Thanks for the comments, keep them comming!

 

They seem to be good prices. I'd think about buying one of the Icon OEM's at that price.

 

No but I think china's gaining a reputation for making decent quality products now, its still not exactly Japan but I think most the HIFI buying public realise that many extremely high quality products can be made in China.

 

Hi AT,

Guarantees and warranties are not compulsory. But you do have the sale of goods act which means that sellers or manufacturers can be taken to court for problems. A Guarantee is extra cover and protection. Some companies will give you a better Guarantee than others.

Hi Markus,

The items can be had at a cheaper price from Hong Kong/China (including taxes & postage) for less but if you offer a UK based warranty and the chance of a dem or money back, you could be onto a winner.

A number of these items are already imported into the UK such as the Shanling so you may run into problems there. So you need to look into this.

http://www.realhi-fi.com/products/shanling_cdt100cuk.html

The importer posts on here.

A number of these items are getting more & more notice. More and more items from china are getting good reviews in the UK press. Having seen some items from China, the quality is there.

SCIDB

 

Why not import Wadias at real dollar/pound conversion prices? Maybe some serious US bass drivers too? I wouldn't like to handle something that fragile from US postage.

http://seismicsubs.com.futuresite.register.com/index.html

 

Thanks for the thoughts so far.

The aim is to use eBay as the sales forum and avoid the costs of bricks and mortar and salaries for sales people and pass it on to the customer. The aim is only to sell a limited volume unless it really takes off. This allows me to comfortably undercut official distributors but without offering the home demo/shop display facilities i.e. price vs. service.

So if I am offering a 1 year warranty, instant repair or full cash refund and the possibility to audition equipment at my home so there is minimal risk then there may be a market?

Will have to read up on retail law, does anyone know how retailers limit their liability if someone burns down their house with a valve amp or opens it up and electrocutes themselves?

Thanks for the opinions, keep them coming!

 

Usually puplic liability insurance, it's not cheap.

Chris

 

Either that or a disclaimer. You have to sell goods as fit for the purpose sold. But I'm sure most receipts have a statement at the bottom declaring they won't be held responsible for consequential loss. You should get advice about this before starting though

 

My dad has public liability insurance, its quite specialised too, however there are many terms and conditions attached to it, so it dosn't really avoid any liability, its just a requirement in my dads business. If you don't have it people assume you're a cowboy.

This business sounds a bit risky as a hobby, it would make far more sense if it was a limited company because your ruduce your liability by quite some margin, of course this will complicate things in terms of running it though.

You will have to include things like public liability insurance into the cost of the items. Also you may eventualy have to be registered for VAT, it will only need to you sell 48 items costing £1000 and you would have to pay it.

Inalnd revenue will need informing too, and you will have to pay income tax on any profits made, or corporation tax if its a limited company. As people suggested to me on a thread I made about running a business, get a seperate bank account for it, then when it comes to doing tax returns it will be straight forward.

 

I am aware of the issues about VAT and tax, I work abroad alot and have tax consultants already who sort that out for me so they would just include any income there.

I am looking at product liability insuarance. The law limits likely liability if you can show you took suitable safety precaustions i.e. good instruction manual, extensive testing of equipment before it is sent to the customer i.e. I don't want to be responsible for harming someone through dodgy goods.

I am considering setting up a limited liability partnership to manage the project. I will probably try selling a few items to gauge response and if succesful form the necessary legal status for the company.

What it comes down to really is whether there is enough interest in chinese hi-fi to make it worth the effort.

I imagine my main customer base would be internet savvy enthusiasts such as yourselves - what form of advertising do you think might be succesful considering you are not normally allowed to advertise on forums?

 

Use the traders sections of forums like this one and pinkfish. Don't litter Hi-fi for sale like the Missing Link use it sparingly. Maybe use advertising like Lim only make it a tad more professional. It may be you have to work out your costings appropriately. I know I can get the OEM Icon for £445 at the moment, but the chance to hear it in advance would be great.

 

Who have you got set up to do the warrantee support? As has been said many of the Chinese brands already have distribution in the UK (even if it's just part of an OEM agrement) and they won't do the support for you. Also what about the different mains supply in China, are you going to convert the gear or buy it as Euro voltage?

 

As an ex-distributor and importer myself and having looked at some of the brands you listed already (be careful not to get too excited about potential brands that already have a UK presence, don't want to tread on any toes), I can tell you that one issue you will be required to deal with is the CE marking.

Many audio manufacturers that have recently built up a reputation in the UK through web based sales on sites like ebay have done so for a very good reason. Alot of the audio equipment is not CE approved.

For a manufacturer to have each model in their portfolio tested and approved for CE marking is expensive and something they often do not feel the need to address. The point you have to be aware of is this:

Once a UK distributor/agent brings product into the UK and places it for commercial sale all responsibilities for ensuring products are CE approved moves from the manufacturer to the seller.

I spent a great deal of time talking with suppliers in the Far East and the US whose knowledge of the whole CE issue is little to none so it's important you understand what's involved and what the risks are should you decide to go ahead and sell products on ebay without having them CE approved.

Your best place for support and guidance on this issue is your local Chamber of Commerce, they will have all the EEC Directives on the issue and usually someone with working knowledge of the marking and sales laws.

I know there are some sellers that I personally have come into contact with in the past on ebay selling equipment (such as the Perpetual Technologies kit), who are very militant about what they are doing and think because their own political view on the CE marking goes against what the law says they are doing the right thing. The DTi certainly like these people,...but only because they can fine them heavily!

The tax and VAT issues are fairly straight-forward, but you will also need to think about using an appropriate courier/import agent to clear the goods, cheapest shipping rates is most likely associated with companies to avoid.

Good luck!

PS. IMHO not sure if you can make a worthwhile business out of it, so many people today realise that they can buy direct overseas cutting out distribution and the dealer, that's half the reason why this industry is struggling so much now.

 

Thanks for the comments on the CE marking - will look into that.

I guess that market opportunity I am looking at is people who want to try chinese gear but are reluctant to order straight from China unseen or heard with no easy repair/refund mechanism. However this market may be fairly non-existant as you have highlighted as Chinese brands do not have
the reputation/exposure yet to create a strong demand.

For warranty I would have the products checked by an electrical engineer (who is my partner in the business) and if not easily fixed I would just refund out of my pocket and send the product back to China to get repaired/replaced.

In terms of official distributors already existing I don't foresee this as a problem as there are many industries in which a parallel grey import market exists. However if anyone has experienced or heard of problems in this regard let me know.

I am guessing at the moment most people want to try the cheaper end of valve amps and valve output cd-players such as EL34 30-40W intergrated amps around the £350-500 mark rather than the more exotic 805/300B monoblocks and poweramps in the £900-1200 region?

What about the class A solid state integrateds, are people interested in these as well or is the focus mostly on valve gear?

I'm thinking of ordering in a variety of units to test sound and build quality and gauge reaction, what do people think they would be interested in hearing?

 

I think you've got it with the cheaper integrateds. Maybe the shanlings, both the CD players have attracted some attention, the cheaper one being alleged to be a Quad CDP with a valve output. If you carried a small range then I'm sure some people would be interested in trying out the different combinations. I decided not to buy an Icon or it's cheaper OEM version because I wanted to try it first. The only way I could try one was to try one of the AVC amps, and I wouldn't do that.