Chord Dac64 - differences of opinion?

The comments in the Sandman bakeoff article - NOS DAC vs SuperDAC, Round 2
got me thinking.

Both Mr_Sukebe and michaelab passed comments - and WM has made similar comments in other threads/posts - which imply their experiences of the Chord Dac64 is that it is a little too forward and brash - 'upfront' and 'tiring'. It was surprising that this seemed to be the opposite of our observations at the bakeoff. However, I then thought back to the only other time I've heard a DAC64 - in an all-Chord and Spendor system at the Manchester airport show earlier this year - and my thoughts from that brief listen (walked into the room and after 2 minutes lusting over the solid aluminium blocks, decided I ought to walk straight back out again) was of an excessively brash and tiring system.

Now, there were obviously loads of differences between the total system compliment in rsands house and at the Manchester Airport show, but I'm wondering how the DAC64 almost seems to get 2 completely different sets of reviews/comments. On the one hand it gets positive comments on its smoothness and 'vinyl-like' qualtities; on the other, it is rejected as tiring and brash by people whose opinions I respect (though it doesn't mean their equipment tastes match mine) from these pages.

How come it seems to get 2 contrasting sets of reviews/comments? Thoughts/opinions please.

 

Basically at the bake off, you were using Valves yes, this seems to help at lot and does give the 64 something good. (without modding the unit) I've done 2 now (one with external psu the other without)
Dean (SICDB) has never made a comment about hardness at all in system and he uses valves (Border patrols).
I have 2 clients with 64 that don't sound hard that use SS amplification one uses DNM mono's and pre with impulse horns
The other uses Lavardin IT Ref with OBX 2's.
One is modded the other is not.Wm

 

ChrisPa

Simply have a listen through a very high quality/valve headphone amp and something nice like the RS1's, and I think you're find the DAC64 sounds perfectly fine. Then again, the Benchmark DAC1 is smoother and more vinyl like IMO, and offers greater balance / studio accurate sound. Given its price and vast array of additional features, the DAC 64 is a poor purchase in comparison and should be quickly forgotten, unless you buy on looks?

I'd trust the ears of those using top end ATC, PMC etc., who normally comment the players sound similar. Most other HIFI (so called) systems and speakers (with respect) are toys, using small drive units that are really not capable of portraying the full frequency bandwidth and scale with real-life measure. I think any CD player/DAC could sound shrill in this kind of setup.

 

I've heard the DAC64 through PMC OB1 and FB1+ and Cyrus amplification, which I guess is anything but valve-like. If anything, the opposite.

The sound was not harsh, forward or brash at all.

Haven't heard the DAC1 though. Ever since I got my NOS, I haven't really thought much about changing DACs.

 

Im using the DAC 64 with an Ikemi feeding more Linn kit. Seems to add a zest to the dry, relaxed Linn sound. Works fine to be honest. I think with it digging up detail in the top end people are mistaking it for sounding forward and harsh.

 

From my listening to the DAC 64, I would say it does have a character that could be described as forward and a little too excitable in the wrong setup. But alas, through high quality phones it didn't give this impression and the top-end was liquid smooth. I assume the harshness people are hearing is because their system cannot resolve the additional detail. I think this maybe due, in large part, to their speakers, mains and cables used. Mains is a very hot topic FTMP and rightly so.

I currently find this with my bedroom LV Auditoriums. They simple don't have a good enough tweeter for great vocal reproduction, which is further reinforced when using the ultra smooth DAC1 or by returning to my Naim SBL's. The SBL speakers have an excellent, really clean vocal reproduction IMO given the price, with a real sense of shape and size. Unfortunately, their not perfect either, but I won't dwell on their bass extension or width flatness today.

 

I heard an a-b with the chord64 againt a benchmark dac1, into ATC50 actives. Six of us couldn't hear a single difference. I ordered a dac1 as it's cheaper, smaller and probably better made being pro sourced. Plus the chord has a 4 second delay, making it useless on movies and a slight annoyance on cd.

In terms of sound I guess they are both transparent as is generally possible to be. The system sound you hear is most likely from the preamp / speaker stage in reality. I prefer the idea of not loosing any detail at source. I would rather 'tailor' the sound to my preference using a pre, or speakers. Anything lost at dac stage is lost forever and cannot be retrieved magically later down the line.

 

I might aswell add that whilst I've heard a DAC64, it's never been in a person's home, and never really fronting what I'd consider a well setup system, so consider me as having virtually zero firsthand experience of one.
My comments were that the impression I'd been given was that the DAC64 could be a little forward, and I was guessing that in a forward system (e.g. my own Naim/Linn combo), that it might be rather tiring.

One of the key things that has struck me more recently is the importance of system synergy. For example, the NOS is clearly more laid back and delicate than anything I've compared it to, it does however seem wonderful with the rest of my Naim/Linn system, reigning in some of the enthusiasm to create IMO a very realistic sound.

 

I use my DAC64 with Border Patrols and LV OBX-Rs. I use a Denon DVD 2900 as a transport and connect them with the optical cable that came in the box with the 64, and with no buffer. It can sound great with some records and shit with others, which I have no problem with. If it sounds good, then it sounds very good.

Far more detail than the NOS I've got, more drive, pace, just more real. Vocals are great. I would recommend anyone buying a dac to listen to one. Not sure I'd pay £2k, though, I bought mine secondhand.

Paul

 

I would certainly not describe the DAC64 as brash or tiring; those are two qualities I cannot tolerate so I'm sensitive to them if present. Smooth and detailed without being bland is how I'd describe the DAC64's sound.

It does output at quite a high level though, so maybe the harshness some have heard is down to the DAC64 overloading the amplifier?

 

Now, here's something I'd not thought of, how about comparing a couple of 64's side by side?
My personal one was an early one with a Torridal transformer, no smps.

 

Harshness could be down to the output, thinking about it. I use Kimber i/cs and with an unattenuated set I could barely get the volume past eight o'clock. The result was rather "shouty", much more so than with the Derek Shek NOS.

With the [cheaper] attenuated set the DAC64 sounds [very] fine.

Paul

 

I don't understand why most buy a buffered chord dac, then turn the buffer off. Nutters! Get a DAC1

 

Precisely!

Any particular type of music?

 

The nutters turn off the buffer when they can't hear an awful lot of difference !!. I used to use the buffer when I had my previous amp/speakers but find it unneccessary with the BPs/LVs. I also tend to think that it times better when the buffer's off. My personal taste, of course.

The fact that some records sound terrible are as much down to the new amp and speakers as the DAC64 IMO. With my system I believe the music sounds much like it's supposed to. While the combo does very well on some modern music [ie most of Queens of the Stone Age CD sounds awesome], other pop/rock can sound rough [the Killers CD, for example]. Most classical/small-scale acoustic/jazz sounds brilliant [was listening to Getz/Gilberto on Verve before work this am and it's mind-blowing]. I don't find the DAC64 tiring but sometimes one CAN experience a "relentless" feeling to the music. For me the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

Other dacs might be better. The only other one I've heard is the Derek Shek I own, and as I've said before I could live with it, but only if I had to.

Paul

 

Assuming the rest of the system is up to scratch, if a song sounds rubbish through a benchmark, it's because the recording is rubbish. They are just letting you know what's going on. That's what they're supposed to do, and is why studio's use them. They don't want a rose tinted version.

I think personal tailoring should come at a later stage down the chain.

 

Quite. Isn't the aim of hi-fi to reproduce an actual musical event convincingly, whether that event sounded "good" or "bad" ??. If one wants to mess about with the signal afterwards then that's one's perogative...I suppose that's why tone controls were invented [or different cables, valves, speakers, DACs nowadays] !!.

Paul

 

You can't turn the buffer off on the DAC64. You can set it to 0, 2, or 4 seconds. The 0 second setting retains some buffering but it is only a few clock cycles (a matter of milliseconds). The ONLY difference between the three settings is what address a software pointer points to. With all three settings the data is read out clocked by the DAC64's internal clock so the jitter is the same for all three and it has no impact on the sound.

 

Isaac

Are you saying that fed with a reasonable signal the DAC64 should sound identical whether set to 0, 2 or 4 second delay ??.

Paul

 

That's interesting to know.

However imo the only reason to buy a chord64 (over a dac1) is the big sexy case work. I do love it's looks, but I much prefer something invisible - hiding a really tiny dac away behind the cd player. It's one less item taking up shelf space.