Climbing the PC ladder....

High End Power Chords.

Cost effective solutions or blatant rip offs

Which to upgrade first. Power Chord, Interconnect, or Speaker cable? Or even box swap! what gives you most bang for the buck?

Your thoughts please....

 

Depends...

Nothing like starting with a non-commital answer.

Adding a power chord to my Naim amp made it sound worse, although it did wonders with my Meridian DAC (now sold).

Personally I found that the speaker cable made the biggest difference in my system, followed by the interconnect and finally the power cable (assuming that I would be refering to using it with my ex DAC).

 

What power cable was it that you tried?

My post maybe somewhat misleading, but I do not mean the likes of Eupen and RA Yellos. Excellent value as they are, I find that in good systems, you have to listen for the improvements, subtle as they are.

I'm wondering how many forum members have experience of the likes of JPS Labs, AZ, Synergistic & Elrod to name a few. My own experiences suggest that these cables make very obvious improvements to the sound, possibly more than you would expect for the outlay.

How many of you have £1200 CD Players, £300 interconnects, and simple £60 mains cables? Ever wondered if you'd be better off with £800 CD Player, £200 interconnect and £500 Power cable

Be interesting to do the comparison me thinks

 

Not tried any "really" expensive power kords in my own system, but I'd very much suspect I'd hear a big improvement as my system is very sensitive to most tweaks, especially cables of any sort or isolation.

Done a little bit of spring cleaning with a can of Deoxit this week, used on my mains plugs and IEC pins of the power inlets of some of my kit and that has really made an appreciable improvement. I'd only cleaned the pins on the plug for the mains block a couple of month back and it came up shiner. There was visible dirt on the cotton swab that I'd used to wipe the IEC connector pins on the mains block (which hasn't been cleaned since new a year ago). And a few months back when I wired some brand new MK Toughplugs onto the Trichord mains conditioner, even thoose came up cleaner.

BTW Merlin, there's a guy called Micheal with an ad in the classified listings of thiis month's Hi-Fi News selling some Tact RCS2.2 kit. Says he's upgrading to multi-channel. That wouldn't be you by any chance would it?

 

i can see where your going , merlin and i,m kinda in agreement .
sort of

i appreciate the differences a good lead (read £60-£100 league)make . i,ve not heard any estoric leads, so i don,t know how much better they are .
i do know how much of an upgrade using three isolation transformers make(read mains conditioners here , they,re probably close enough in performance)
i also apreciate the extra improvement you get when using in-line filters for your cd/dac/tt.
i gave some advice over at hifi choice and i really do think this is the way to go when your considering upgrading .
1, buy isolation tranny (mains conditioner)big enough for your system
2, buy an inline filter for your cdp
3,if using a dac get another in line filter .
4, get a second tranny/mains conditioner for your digital front end .
5, replace your std leads with better quality.

i really do think for sound quality per pound , that this is the way to go .
but , we,re all different and i expect there,ll be quite a few who don,t agree .

 

Good to see you Back Mike , I would care not too comment too much, as It could be seen as 'Misinterpretation' due to my 'Dark dealings' in the world of audio Although I will say, none of my power leads are 'Run of the Mill' WM

 

I am coming to believe that properly sorted mains is absolutely fundamental to achieving good sound quality. Last night I put in an unswitched wall socket and changed the old IEC connectors on my old RA powerkords to Wattgate 320s. I expected some kind of difference, but I am really surprised at how much of a difference there was - simply more of everything.

Last week, I heard an expensive acoustic Zen in my system an again there was a really big difference.

I guess at some point it has got to be worth going the whole hog and getting a separate spur put in with quality cable, and using a RCD rather than a fusebox.

So I would say, if you want to improve your system, starting at the mains whether it be fancy cables or separate spur or good connnectors, would be the first place to start.

Cheers, Robbo

 

im a bit rusty on the regs, but i think you have to still have a fuse in circuit even with an RCD. An RCD detects current leak whereas a fuse is for overcurrent protection.
I guess Hippy will be more upto date and have a better answer

 

Ah found out

If someone wants my RCS/S2150 combo for the asking price, I will be going for the TCS, which is basically 10 channels of what I have

The reason for the post was to guage reaction. We tried it out today at Audio T, my P30 with Eupen power lead vs Classe CDP with Shunyata Viper V2. Cost new would be the same, although the Classe is of course an integrated. Both units were run into the Tact RCS.

With standard chords, the P30 was preferred by all, not surprising given the price difference. Fitting the Classe with the $1K power lead though totally reversed the findings, everyone preferring the punch and dynamic contasts of the "tweaked" unit

Same result with Cyrus DVD8 player and Arcam FMJ27, the cheaper unit with the expensive power chord gave the better performance in both picture and sound departments.

For those of you interested, these PCs can be picked up on Audiogon for about 30% UK retail, the Viper cost me less than $500. When you think a 2m Eupen is only a couple of hundred quid cheaper, it does make you think. Especially if you are thinking of upgrading your front end

 

Michael,

I thought you were cured from the upgrade bug and werent changing any more kit

That didnt last long!

Robbo

 

yep thats about it.

 

...and fuse needn't necessarily fuse "wire", right? Just an over current triggered circuit breaker such as an MCB (miniture circuit breaker).

Most modern consumer units have MCBs (instead of fusewire) on each circuit and RCD protection on some (if it's a split design) or all circuits following the MCBs and before the master switch.

I believe there is a debate as to which sounds better, fuse wire or MCBs. Anyone know what the for/against arguments are for each type on sonic grounds!

 

I use VDH Mainsstream with my DVD and processor, and it does make a big difference, I am sure more than what I would get spending the difference in better components...

They are not too expensive, "only" 240 euros each PC...

Merlin,

Welcome back to surround, next you will buy a TAG... :MILD:

 

I have to concur with some of Merlin findings, A lot of quality kit can be boring and some what reserved in presentation,more so than other's. Not surprising the Classe' woke up with some good juice going in, intrestingly if you put the V2 on the already 'lively' teac would the result have mirrored the first one with the stock power chords ?
Good rewards can be gained by correct matching of 'Complementing' power chords.
For example CDP's/ transports/ Dac's/Upsamplers and pre's, generaly require Greater screening from RF/HF mains bonre noise, due to the sensitive nature of the circuitry involved, and as our own In-house Guru (JC) has stated anything with a clock (Crystal oscillator) generates RF in fairly large amounts, which in turn effects the digital signal, so by isolating and or reducing the effect of RF in the sensitive areas can only be a good thing.
Power amps on the other hand, love Current bucket loads of it, as fast as the tranformer can couple to the mains the better, so a lot of Dynamics and headroom can be gained from correct matching of a 'Juice giver '
Now it's not that cut and dried, lots of Quality kit can be effected in diffent ways by the Same power chord , so what may work pretty well on one, may not have the same result on component 'b'
For example Merlin's Viper, just didn't gel with my transport (which I have some exotic power mods on already), yet gave a good result with the Belcanto.
It's taken me 3 months to find the correct power leads for Chez Rock 'n' Roll, a lot of bollox or just good practice? A few people know and understand, others it's HOW Much, fair point, but just change the P/c on my amp, and you'll understand WM

 

Unfair I cry Neil

It's just that I have two seperate systems at the moment. I placed the ad months ago, so not really fussed either way. Perfectly happy not to change really. In fact, anyone offering five quid less than the asking price would be politely told to go away and fornicate! Whatever happens, I will be staying with Tact The addition of the Shunyata mains system and the Teac has taken it to a whole nuther level!

That's exactly my point Tone, my experience suggests that seemingly stupidly priced power chords, carefully purchased s/h, are a very viable alternative to hardware upgrades. BTW, the Teac with V2 & Hydra rocksRaT: (how did that picture of Graham N appear!)

Just waiting for the King Cobra to arrive then it's party time:JPS:

 

Hi,

My take on this - if you've "noisy mains " then conditioners / powercords make the most difference - I've a RA purifier block for amps etc and use DPA inline filters for DAC/transport.

Next I feel speaker cable then interconnects - providing you're not using really awful wire at present.

neil

 

Personally, I'd much rather get a good dedicated circuit (or set of curcuits) installed before advancing from the £60 per mains lead level.

The really expensive leads will be providing good RF filtering, but I doubt they'll do much or anything to change the impedence of the supply that the hi-fi is running off. This is where a well excuted dedicated circuit (or spur if you are only running one component off of it IMHO) pays dividends over just getting a mains lead to go between the wall and your component. This impedence issue also affect most mains conditioners which run even more efficiently as a result.

Dedicated circuits would probably be more beneficial for power amps, whereas the lower powered source components just require RF and HF interference free conditions.

Those with PWM based amps (class D or T) probably have less issues with impedence problems on the mains I'd guess, as these amps have less volatile current demands than coventional amps - I'm guessing? They can be thought of more as digital components in their power requirements??

 

I think it really depends on what is causing the problem in the first place Henry. If your equipment itself is the primary culprit of noise in the system by generating large amounts of RFI and EMI, then I cannot see how the dedicated circuit can solve the problem.

Ideally of course you would use both solutions, but with my set up, a grand's worth of Isotek Substation had a marginal affect at best, the addition of the cables for the same price brought about a transformation. I would certainly suggest that the PC on your transport can make or break the system. The best analogy I've heard was to imagine a fast flowing narrow stream filled with rubbish entering a vast lake. As it does so, the ripples will fade away and the crud will be deposited at the entry to the lake. In this example the mains supply is the stream, the cable is the lake.

If this is indeed representative of the cables' effects, the only issue left is that of constant voltage supply. Having tried the PS Audio P300, I for one don't feel it's that vital in the scheme of my system. A with anything, it is a case of suck it and see, but for some of us, there is no going back to the cheaper alternatives.

 

Absolutely.

In an ideal world, and given that you would have a big fist of bank notes to throw at the solution, then yes, I'd agree 100%. Given a limited budget, I'd approach it differently in order to address the solution in a piece meal manner. Also, being an owner of a multi-sourced system, the dedicated ring main approach means that everything gets an upgrade, not just one source.

Having experienced the very same thing in my own system, I know exactly where you're coming from. In fact, I tried the same lead on DAC, upsampler, pre and power amp and the best overall result came from having the PC on the transport. It was a very positive and quite unprecedented transformation from the already decent PC that was on there before in certain areas I didn't think could be addressed by PC alone. I'm now looking for a suitable PC to go on the CDT to upgrade the exisiting one. The one I tried out didn't quite do it for me in all areas.

Good analogy, but what about keeping the fast flowing water fast flowing and constant throughout the journey. Removing the rubbish is a vital part of the story, but not the complete picture IMO. That's why we need both approaches, if the rate of flow and pressure aren't high and consistant enough then the water won't move and drive our water mill (our equipement) along at the same speed further down stream (which is what we need also) viz impedence.

 

the trouble with all this mains malarky is the simple fact you have to alter yours(and others ) belief systems .
merlin has achieved great results (to him) with a very expensive wiring loom .
i,ve achieved great results (to me)with a seperate ring main (and seperate consumer unit) , 3 isolation trannies , 3 filters and cheap (if good quality) cable which will carry 120amps (240 in places). for the cost of one of merlins cables .(total cost about £800)

the trouble is , the only way we,d know who was right and who was more right (cos we are both right, IMHO- any mains treatment is a step in the right direction)would be for me and merlin to listen to his set up and then replace his wiring loom with mine (including the dedicated ring)which is impossible .
or for him to listen to my system with my cable approach and then replace my cabling etc with his wiring loom .
(also impossible as i only have one ordinary wall socket in my room)
now i,ve no doubt that if such a challenge could take place(it can,t) , merlin would be very confident that his cable loom would do the biz .
i on the other hand would be quietly confident that i would at least give him a supprise .
and if his did trounce mine , theres then the cost to dwell on....

but it,s not going to happen , and so we have debates on hifi forums as to which is the best approach