Cost of great Music

[wolfgang]

Some one showed me a review of a loudspeaker this yesterday. It start with the statement, ''Today we can put together a high-performance, highly musical system for a fraction of what that cost a decade ago''.

Judging by the recommended retail prices of my toys and by the looks of it everyone else mega super system I wonder if there is any truth in this?

 

[zanash]

I agree and have for several years pursued a different approach, rather than upgrade at the drop of a hat. I will see how to squeeze that last few percent from the gear I use. This of course is unlike others who post here "who can't be assed to get that last 2% from there system". I have used T-amps sucsessfullyfor a year, these must be one of the most cost effective changes I ever made....allowing me to buy new software at a rate not seen for many years.

 

[Garmt]

It is simply not true... Some improvements were made in drivers, but that doesn't neccessarily make a better or cheaper speaker. The same goes for amps, which haven't changed in ages, except for new class D/T technology (switching amps), which is exciting. These also have not gone down in price (except again, the D/T amps).

As for CD-players: they have gotten more expensive but WORSE since the 80's/90's... Better specs and more hifi, less music...

 

[zanash]

That only applies if you have a closed mind and are not prepaired to look at items that come from more exotic sources. Though your right in your coments about normal domestic uk hifi.

As to Cd players ........you have just not heard the right ones [IMO as everyones tastes will be different]. To name a few Wadia, shanling, Nos dac, Quad 99cdp, ........these are world beaters at there price point.

If you follow and believe the current crop of UK magazines its not suprising that you come to the conclusions you have. You perhaps need to read everything with a big pinch of salt. That approach has always paided dividens for me.

 

[jtc]

Don't forget that there's increasing competition from the likes of China which will inevitably mean that getting a good sound needn't cost the earth. Personally, the solid state pre/psu/power amp trio I replaced with my Chinese valve amps would have cost some poor bugger around £9k new, compared to £1500 for the valve pre-power - and yet the valve pre-power sounds much more 'musical' and I get more enjoyment from the music I play on it. So, yeah, assuming nothing else had changed, it ought to be possible to put together a really nice system for not-too-much.

 

[griffo104]

I think Garmt has a point - to a degree.

My first cd player was a Kenwood - 17 years ago. I still have this player and and use it in my 2nd system. The build quality is very good, it has two outputs, one fixed, one variable which allows you to connect firectly to a power amp. The sound is detailed and very enjoyable - certainly not the harsh bright sound cd got tagged with all those years ago, the cd transport is very smooth and the feature count is very high.

Cost new was £230 - add inflation what would that be now ?

Most decent cd replay now starts at around the £1000. Due to cheap (and nasty) dvd players the budget cd sector has all but disappeared, Kenwood, pioneer, technics and comapnies like that no longer either exist or make cd players any more.

However, I think vinyl has moved on and decks such as the Rega P3, Goldring deck, projekt debuts, etc.. are very good for the money.

Also look at the Lyra dorian, to some this is an expensive cartridge, but to get a cart using these materials, hand built, with the great sound quality it has, would have cost a lot more 15 years ago (allowing for inflation and those kind of factors) - IMO of course.

 

[Garmt]

As to Cd players ........you have just not heard the right ones [IMO as everyones tastes will be different]. To name a few Wadia, shanling, Nos dac, Quad 99cdp, ........these are world beaters at there price point.

If you follow and believe the current crop of UK magazines its not suprising that you come to the conclusions you have. You perhaps need to read everything with a big pinch of salt. That approach has always paided dividens for me.

I listen with my ears, not my eyes and I know there are a lot of good CD-players, it is just that I see a TREND where the major brands are putting out players that get worse with every new model. I have a CEC + NOS DAC myself (had an Ack, now Audio Mirror on loan). Shanling and Quad 99 don't float my boat at all.

 

[griffo104]

The Shanling players I have heard look great but something is definitely missing when you listen to them - not sure what but something isn't right.

I still think the entry level cd players from the likes of Linn, Naim, Meridian are all very good players - not world beaters maybe but good enough for the likes of me.

 

[Garmt]

But weren't the players from these companies 10 years ago much, much worse than nowadays? I think the opposite might be true for SOME of their products. This is very true of Arcam.

 

[griffo104]

It depends on you view point. Meridian were one of the major players in advancing cd replay.

Most of the 'hifi' companies simply rebadged Sony/Philips hardware and charged you alot more for it - something Linn/Naim could get away with.

certainly,IMO, Linn amplifiers have improved from the ones 10 years ago. Some would say Naim have ditched the music and gone all hifi.

Arcam used to be a comapny with some great affordable products but everything by them seems to have got more and more expensive lately - or is that just me ?

 

[Garmt]

Arcam used to be a comapny with some great affordable products but everything by them seems to have got more and more expensive lately - or is that just me ?

I agree to an extend. I think especially their CD-players are going the wrong way.

 

[griffo104]

When I first looked to get a system the Arcam Alpha range (cd players and amps) was nigh on perfect.

It sounded good, was reasonably priced - ok it looked a bit plasticky but you could forgive that. i don't really see them having ahving that now - ok they have just bought the Solo but add speakers to that and you are looking at around £1300.

 

[zanash]

I listen with my ears, not my eyes and I know there are a lot of good CD-players, it is just that I see a TREND where the major brands are putting out players that get worse with every new model. I have a CEC + NOS DAC myself (had an Ack, now Audio Mirror on loan). Shanling and Quad 99 don't float my boat at all.

Please please....re read my post I was part agreeing with you.
Your "listen with your eyes" comment is really rather funny, as i was saying roughly the same thing to the cable sceptics ! I never give items house room that I have not invested a great deal of time and energy to listening to, or getting advice from people who have similar tastes. As stated in my post those are players that I like, not what i thought you would like. I would not presume to tell you or anyone else what you should listen to, that has to be your choice.

So we agree on the Nos ...I think we actually agree on far more. Having listen to the Nos with it owner , in my system we both agreed the Quad to be the better dac...In our opinion. Thats not saying it bad, just it very good at its price point. I can think of the MF X-dac as an example of how things have moved on .The X-dac must have been about £250 new, and even sh is fetching £100, which is totally outclassed by the Nos at half the new price, and now comparable to the sh price. I should know I have one of these as well.

But I agree there are many older items that sound better than the new ones. Though there are many items that are new that range from good to horrible, so its a bit of a false argument.

There are a great many bits of kit that now cost far less and out perform more expensive gear. T-amps as stated else where will give a great many amps upto 1k a real hard time.

I think I'd rather choose a new system from todays gear than from gear ten to twenty years ago, both on pricing and percived sound quality.