DAB = Rip-Off Britain?

"The audio quality of a digital radio station is heavily dependent on the bit rate used. For DAB, which uses MPEG Audio Layer 2, 192 kbps is generally accepted as being a good bit rate to use for stereo music stations, and the higher the bit rate the better the audio quality, and vice versa. The bar chart at http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/ clearly shows that the UK implementation of DAB is trailing the world by a very significant margin.

Another example of Rip-Off Britain because the rest of the world are providing decent audio quality on DAB yet Britain the broadcasters are providing far lower audio quality so that they can cram in as many stations as possible."

Freeview offer higher bit rates than DAB!
192 kbps required for hi-fi use on Radio 1, 2, 3 and 4.

 

hmmm,
you're right except for the fact that the major market of america has rejected dab so development of the system will be that much slower.
also the people that are most likely to adopt dab at this stage are of the mp3 quantity over quality crowd. couple that with the governments way of auctioning off frequency bands with sealed bids and you have the current situation.
i for one sold my dab tuner as i have cable tv which comes with every station imaginable, this and internet radio are the way forward for home listening with dab only of real use for in car.
cheers


julian

 

Point to remember is that FREEVIEW (and not DAB using digital tuners) is a viable high quality option.

Bit rates of 192 kbps (Radio 1, 2, 3 and 4) is superior to DAB, analogue FM and MP3.

And you get many free TV stations to boot.

Whilst what happens in the US will have some influence, it is not the end of the world as there are plenty of other countries involved to provide a viable market.

Also, FREEVIEW is developed enough to provide a quality service, here and now.

Nokia Mediamaster playing through a DAC in to my hi-fi system is as good as any other radio I have heard including terrestrial and Sky.

And it is free

 

I've been using a DAB radio in my car for the last 3 years and when doing 70 down the motorway it sounds just fine

However, I borrowed a DAB tuner for home and returned it after 2 days, my ancient Technics ST-S6 tuner sounded far superior.

I have not tried the FREEVIEW route yet but I have tried Sky (I like Radio 6 and Radio 7) and I could not tell the difference between the Sky broadcast and the dedicated DAB tuner.

 

Well, I bit the bullet this afternoon. Seeing as Richer Sounds were having their "open box sale" this today, I shuffled along to pick myself up a Cambridge Audio DB300 DAB tuner for £90 (and no they didn't have any TEAC T1's at my local branch ).

OK, it's bargain basement stuff and I bet the £2k+ model from TAG would wipe the floor with it, but I was getting a bit fed up of listening to Classic Gold on medium wave so a DAB was the only answer.

Yep, almost all the DAB broadcasts I can pick up are rather sadly only in 128 kbps, and we still don't currently have any BBC national coverage in our area as yet (even though we do have our local BBC station available on DAB).

Initial results are pretty much as expected. I can't see that I'll be binning my FM tuner until the analog transmissions are switched off (that'll be a sad day indeed), but the sudden opening up in choice of stations is difficult to argue with. It's good enough for background music, but for serious foreground listening analog FM is definitely preferred.

Now, as some of you may know, one of my favourite phrases is that "you can polish a turd so far"... and yes this is definitely the case here. I've put the coax digital output from the tuner into my dCS DAC/upsampler combo, which has produced a mild improvement and cleaned up some of the "confusion" in the top end, but boy there is still that definite lack of trailing edge and substance to the sound that to my ears at least so marks out a lossy compressed digital audio source (of say less than 320 kbps).

BTW, I'm thinking of investing in Freeview box with digital audio output at some point, but only for radio (I have cable but the TV is in a different room to the main hi-fi). Noticed Bluemax mentioning the Nokia Mediamaster - how much is this - and what other Freeview set top boxes are there out there with digital out? I'm aware that there are some stations that are on DAB and that are not available on Freeview radio, and visa versa, this is my reasoning for investing in both. I was almost tempted to get a Goodmans GDB5 which does Freeview and DAB in one box, but the launch of this bit of kit has been delayed numerous times and it doesn't have digital out AFAIK but seems like good idea for the projected £99 that Argos were due to sell it for.

 

Henry,

CJROSS has a Nokia Mediamaster, and seems to be pretty clued up about the current trends in the market with this sort of thing. Maybe a trip to the other side for some pointers Or just do a search over there, should be some old threads worth looking at.

 

OK, cheers for that Cookie.

BTW, still there nothing like the feel of a good old fashioned silver fronted analog tuner from the 70's/80's. I had to hook up an all analog Sansui that I paid a tenner for just to listen to medium wave through the main rig the other day.

 

You're obviously a man of fine tastes Henry

I'm down to just one these days A nice little 70's Luxman. Quite a belter

Sansui

cheers

 

Sansui T-60

Nothing special...



But the full length lit display looks in a darkened room.

 

Nokia Mediamaster 221T is very much the top of the range and cost £130. It has all the features and connections one could wish for. It has been the Best Buy by many magazines.

Another good option is to buy a re-furburished Nokia MediaMaster 9850 T for £35; a trader is currently selling at QXL auctions. Originally made for On Digital and cost £129. It also has electrical digital output etc.

At Nokia.com and you can download the User Guide for full spec and details.
See http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/ for details of others with electrical digital output.
There is manufaturer's link at http://www.freeview.co.uk/
Few test reports at http://www.whatvideotv.com/testbench/index.html

 

98% of all Stereo Stations on DAB Now Use 128 kbps

Emap have reduced the bit rates of its remaining stations at 160kbps to 128kbps on Emap South Yorkshire and Emap Leeds.

This leaves just 6 stations using 160kbps, one station using 192kbps and 283 stations using 128kbps. This compares with the German version of the Radio Authority, ARD, recommending that stations use 192kbps or above if the stations transmit in stereo. Only 3% of stereo radio stations on DAB in Germany use 128kbps.

This clearly shows that the UK implementation of DAB is an absolute disgrace and the Radio Authority has let the general public down very badly indeed, and highlights the fact that the current "light-touch" regulation regime that is applied to commercial radio basically lets the commercial broadcasters do what they want at the expense of the listener. I'm afraid that with Ofcom's remit to promote self-regulation then this situation will only get worse once Ofcom comes into being this coming December.
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/

 

But are the general public at large that worried? I'm sure for the majority, they'll get their new DAB radios and think wow it's so crystal clear, no background hiss at all, and that'll all it will take to win them over - especially for the generation brought up on internet downloaded MP3s.

----------------

On the subject of Freeview boxes with digital audio outputs, it looks like it'll either be the Pioneer DBR TF100 or Philips DTR1500, both avaialable for around about the £80 mark.

 

Pioneer DBR TF100 does not have an electrical digital output; only optical. Philips DTR1500, though a newer model, is not good as the Nokia Mediamaster interms of sensitivity, features and ease of use. However, it is cheaper and should be okay in areas of good signal strength.
Mor details at "What video and widescreen TV' website

 

Nokia Mediamaster it is then Henry - we both know what Exeter's like for terrestrial TV reception - digi or otherwise

You kept that DAB tuner quiet though dude - was it mint condition or was it missing anything? Good price! I'll have to hear this through the D-D/DAC dCS stuff - he he he... I bet Planet Rock still has dire analog compression on top of dire digital compression....

 

I don't know, some people seem to favour the Philips, and it's cheaper compared to the newer version of the Mediamster. I'll hang back and wait for some more views.

I've tried putting a few postcodes into the Freeview checker and apparently I can't get it, nor can any other Exeter postcodes get it (including places right in town and your place), but I'm not sure that that's correct. I mean, when I asked about the £40 Grundig Freeview box at Richer on Sunday, they told me that they'd sold out really quickly that week apparently - but I'm glad they sold out anyway as that box didn't have diigtal out so I found out later.

I posted up on a public forum that I now you frequent, how's that keeping it quiet?

Mint but ex-dem. Got the box, but no instructions or leads. Got to see if I can exchange it though, as it's supposed to be silver (and that's what it says on the box), but it's actually black.

Analog compression ain't so bad, to my ears at least, but digital compression and artifacts I defo find more offensive.

 

I dont see the point of DAB at the moment. All the DAB gear is overpriced, FM sounds perfectly fine in my car which is the main time I listen to it, and I have an analogue tuner at home which does a fine job as well, I see no need for all the overpriced DAB.

It's funny that there's so many stations because not that many people actual have DAB yet so each station must get hardly any listeners!

 

Freeview coverage is supposed to be extended in future. In the meantime forget about Freeview and DAB and get good aerial for your FM tuner.

There might be cable and satalite options in your area but more expensive being commercial. But that is the way Rubert Murdoch, arguably the most influencial person on the planet, wants it.

 

Very much in agreement with you Hodgesaargh on the pricing issue. There are quite a few hi-fi seperates component type DAB tuners available below £100 if you look out for them. Although I'd guess you were refering more to products like the Arcam, Sony ES and Tag DAB tuners, which might be considered perhaps more "hi-fi" or audiophile oriented but are well above £500.

I don't know what the answer to this is, but I do wonder what the £500+ models played straight through their analogue outputs would sound like when compared to say a £100-150 model played through its digital output into a high quality DAC. Would the higher priced models sound much better, if at all? Are we paying for any clever pre-processing prior to the DAC in these more expensive models? Indeed, would say the £2k+ Tag model sound any better when played through an external DAC?

Regarding the second issue of who needs DAB? Well, two camps I would say. Those that have poor existing FM reception, and the second, those who want more choice. I don't mind sacrificing a bit of ultimate quality for more choice simply because we have absolutely nothing on FM in these parts: the 4 national BBC networks, and one local station of each flavour i.e. one BBC and one independent - a total of 6 FM stations. I use to live in London, and yes the choice on FM was enough to keep me happy and to avoid the temptation of getting DAB or any other alternative radio source.

The stations that are available on DAB have been replicated in a lot of cases on Freeview, satelite and cable TV services. So the audience isn't just limited to those that have DAB, although admittedly compared to those with FM receiver it is surely still small.

Already have cable TV, but TV's in a different room to the main hi-fi, as I like to keep the two apart. And I'm already a big fan of quality FM listening. Use to have a big 17 element Ron Smith aerial at my old house, but didn't see the point at the new location as even with a big Ron Smith twig it still wouldn't pick up very much more that what I can already get. Got an 8 element Triax pulling in the FM waves instead.

 

Has anyone in poor reception areas considered Broadband Internet Radio using a quality sound card and a superDAC feeding the hi-fi system ?

 

Yeah - Exeter's radio is SHOCKINGLY bad - and Radio Devon really is as shite as it sounds - really REALLY cheesy - the only good things about our local radio are the tacky jingles and adverts...

At least on DAB you get more choice - though STILL no BBC "ensemble" yet. Core, Planet Rock, Kiss, Virgin are all OK though barring the gargle gurgle that is DAB of course

Using hi-rate broadband at work (I can download at quite high speed theoretically) we still get dropouts and lots of gurgle on digital net radio - that turd is harder to polish than DAB IMHO... Datarates aside.