DAC - How much difference does the transport make?

How much difference does the transport make to the sound of a DAC? Is it more a matter of the detail and timbre, rather than a drastic change to the tonal balance?

Here's my dilemma... For a variety of reasons (defunct DVD player, new house, baby), I'm giving up on surround sound and going back to stereo. I'm getting rid of of my surround-sound processor and two power amps (centre and rear), and replacing them with some sort of CD-player/DAC/pre-amp combination.

As I also have a DAB tuner and a cheaper DVD player (purchased from Richer Sounds for another room), the idea of a separate DAC appeals.

If I blow my initial budget on the best DAC or digital pre-amp I can afford, how much would it be compromised by using it with a modest DVD player whilst I saved up for a better transport? Would I even hear much of a benefit from using a better transport?

Would it depend on the DAC? The web-page for the Audio Synthesis Dax Decade seems to suggest that it's been designed to be immune to jitter, whereas Cyrus seem to say that the DAC-XP can adjust itself to the quality of the input.

I realise that this is probably a "how long is a piece of string"-type question, but any thoughts would be welcome.

 

I think it depends on the DAC, I have listened to a few which have been designed to be completely immune to transport, let us know how you get on, The Audio Synthesis is mean' t to be good,although I haven't heard it yet, keith.

 

My experience is that the transport lends ver little to the overall sound of a transport/DAC combo. So buy one that you like the look and feel of. The only time I have ever heard a big difference was when one made my system sound rather harsh. Every other I have heard worked just fine.

I have found the Cambridge Audio DiscMagic transport to be superb by the way, and I only paid about £75 for one on eBay ages ago. Teac T1 is also supposed to be good, or the Pioneer StablePlatter players. Currently I use a Sony CDP-X3000ES.

Hope that gives some ideas.

 

My personal view is that the transport can make a reasonable difference. I have a DAC that is supposed to be "jitter resistant", yet you can certainly tell the difference on my system between a good and an ok transport.

For your requirements, I'd suggest a good CDP.

 

What are you using?

 

I have a Bel Canto DAC2, which supposedly uses the same jitter resistance design as the Benchmark DAC1.

 

in my experience there are differences...I upgraded from a nad c521bee to a c542 - the cdp was the only thing that changes and there was a lot more wallop in the sound...

 

I'd go for the cheapo while you save for a better transport.
My Sony DVP 7700 supposedly doubles as a very good cd transport but my T1 trounces it and is more weighty with better seperation, detail and a more natural tone.(through a DAC1)

 

IMo it can make all the difference. Its a synergy thing like everything else.
The players Tenson recommended are all solid transports. I would reco a CEC, Rega or better Sony players. That said IMO the critical link is the link the Digital cable. A true 75Ohm cable is a must. Then the character of that cable needs to compliment your combo. It can get complicated.
Being through several D/As and transports; Theta 5a, Levinson 39, Meridian, Sony, MSB, Sonic Frontiers, Audio Alchemy and the original Mod Squad. Had some great sounding combos however after hearing the Lector CDP7 a one box player I was hooked. Besides the sonics only 1 powercord, no digital cable and one isolation device required. Keep it simple.
In this day and age I believe the transport will become a thing of the past with the computer used as the transport. No jitter, no transport, battery operated [optioal] easy acess, downloading, perfect bit for bit resolution, etc.
Look into a MAC Book laptop for your transport add tour favorite DAC with a USB port and you may be one very happy camper.

rollo

 

IMO computers really make rather poor transports unless you use a top flight external audio interface. They have jitter just like any other transport, often worse due to a noisy PSU. They can be great, but its certainly not a given.

 

Not a given I agree but worth a try. Just curious how is there jitter if the music comes from the hard drive?
I mentioned the Mac Book [1100US] because we demoed one at our club meeting. All were impressed with how quiet it was as well as the sound. For the budget minded it can serve as your computer as well. Just a thought.


rollo

 

On Tuesday I'll be picking up a CD player with two digital inputs so it will be easy to attach a second transport and a laptop and switch drives on the fly. This makes a blind test dead easy, so if anyone is interested in trying this (but it will be done blind) send me a PM.

 

The AS Dax Decade is good, but even there the transport can have an affect - four of us carried out a test recently between a modded Transcend (Sony 711) and an original build Transcend. The latter (being substantially better build, and costing at least £1200 more s/h) had greater sound stage, and was 'more relaxed', 'natural' and 'coherent'.

 

Transports can make various amounts of difference from none to dramatic, completely depends on ancillaries, system synergy, system resolution, cables, system bandwidth, system location and room acoustics, musical taste and ones hearing acuity.

I myself think it worthwhile investing in a proper red book CD player or transport, and don't like what the CD-Rom/DVD-drive/DVD player choices do.

My own collection of kit had quite an amount of component choices for CD replay, transports varying from £100 to £4,500 into dacs varying from £500 to £3k+, with extras such as Theta TLC and the Genesis Digital lense, and identical cables throughout systems with many digital sources.

For instance, next to me at the moment, a £3k EAD Theatervision P and a £700 Pioneer DV-737 DVD are both hooked up to a Genesis Digital Lense with identical cable, the lense is feeding the digital input of a Technics SU-MA10 amp which is feeding a pair of Kef R-107. (also with Linn Kan MKII at times)

Even though the Genesis practicaly eliminates jitter, the EAD is clearly superior sounding to the Pioneer. As are various LD transports I have, and was the Dual cd player I recently sold.

That said, I would rather spend the money on the best DAC I could afford, and use a cheap DVD player from Sainsbury's until I could demo and try various transports when funds later allow.

I think this is an area where one has to test the water and make their own judgement.

And just because another may go on about superiour this or that, you can still enjoy the choices you prefer.

 

Rollo>
I think that you might be mixing up "bit perfect" with jitter.
In theory, music ripped from CD to a HD using software like EAC should have fewer real time data errors, hence the term "bit perfect".
However, jitter is nothing to do with data accuracy and everything to do with the timing of when that data arrives at the DAC. PCs are notoriously poor at that, and the comments across the net of people comparing the results of using a PC as digital transport, vs a good CD transport backs that up.

 

We've already done this with the Marantz a year or so back, using an Arcam DVD player and Apple Powerbook. Sadly the blind test was conclusive and the two people listening picked out the in built transport 20/20. I've yet to hear a hard drive based system that really convinces anyone other than it's owner.

 

agreed. representation of music requires attention to timing not just bit content

 

That's interesting to hear. I have no firm opinion but that's because I haven't made any direct comparisons yet.
I'll try it with a Meridian 206 and Apple MBP as transport.

 

Clock locking makes a difference

 

Hi Rollo,

As Mr Sukebe partly explained, jitter is not so much to do with the device reading the data, but what tells that device when to read the data. There is a little clock inside it that says 'read the next bit, read the next bit, read the next bit...' and if that is not perfectly accurate then variation in the timing of the data bits (jitter) results.

The purity of the power supply can affect that little clock quite a lot so in a PC where there is lots of electrical noise it can be pretty bad.