DAC64 replacement suggestions

Hello-

I am looking for a 2nd DAC, ideally a good competitor to my Chord DAC64 mk I (which I like a lot, but is now far too pricey in the US, with the dollar underwater…)

Price point is roughly $1k, unless the unit is a good step up from the DAC64, at which point I can hit $3k or so (used). Demo-ing will be hard, since few local dealers have DACs... so I am trying to narrow the field to one or two options to try to get hold of.

My questions are these:
- Is the Benchmark DAC1 a reasonable competitor to the DAC64, given my system? I don't need to know which is better, just whether I'd be wasting my time.
- Ditto re: the Bel Canto DAC2 (or DAC3)?
- Other suggestions (DA10, DL III)?
- I have seen suggestions that to go (an easily noticeable) step up from the DAC64 requires $8k+ (new)... is this true?

$1k is the target, but I am flexible depending on how good the unit is compared to the DAC64. < $3k used is a (soft) top end.

My system is a Squeezebox -> DAC64 -> JRDG pre & amp (solid state) -> Vandersteens. The system has nice resolving power, but is a bit laid back, maybe a tad dark (especially compared to Thiel or Krell stuff, which I don't like so much). Pretty linear, & good time-domain response (1st order). I am happy with it- not really trying to change anything in particular, just need a 2nd DAC which (depending how I like it) will go to the study or replace the Chord (which would then go to the study). Generally listen to pop (Dead/Marley/Portishead), guitar (Gotan/Cook/DiMeola), female vocalists (Merchant/Krauss), electronica (Kruder & Dorf./Oakenfold), and some classical.

I would appreciate responses from people who have owned or spent a reasonable amount of time with at least the DAC64 & the unit(s) they recommend. Comments from those with systems remotely similar to mine will be most helpful; I'm a long way from SETs/horns. Also interested if folks have used them in headphone set-ups, which I consider to be quite revealing. Not considering changing my transport, or anything else in the chain- this is only about the DAC.

I don't mean to overconstrain the discussion, just trying to make clear that this isn't a generic "which DAC is better (for everything)" question.

Thanks for any suggestions/advice!

 

You aren't going to find anything that does quite what the DAC 64 does at around the same price, the Benchmark though tending towards analytical rather than warm and full doesn't have the same top end sparkle as the 64 and slightly less authority in the bass.

The only really innovative and cost effective DAC on the horizon is the new one coming from John Westlake the guy who designed the Pink Triangle Cardinal and Ordinal, he has a direct sell $300 DAC due out in about 6 weeks, which should, given the spec and his pedigree, wipe the floor with anything under $2k.

 

I recently compared the DAC1 with the DA10, and chose the latter for the same reasons. I think the Lavry is superb VFM.

Steve

 

I had a DAC64 for a couple of years and liked it very much, but I like its replacement better - Monarchy Audio M22c. Not quite the top end sparkle, but I was never sure that was right anyway, and an overall more 'real' presentation. Can't remember the details of how it sounded different as it was a while back. Would definitely suggest trying the latest (M24?) which has the option of tube or ss output. Amazing value also imho.

 

Does anyone have any info regarding or any pictures of this new John Westlake DAC?
I had read that the cheaper version would be aroung the £500 mark, with the better cased version closer to £850?

 

The new Dacapo is a totally different beast – while the DAC sections are still fully discrete, as the world first in the original Pink triangle Dacapo which consisted of two DAC sections per channel, the new Dacapo has 64 per channel – a total of 128 DAC's per unit.

“Supported†Specifications - which I'm prepared to tantalize you with now

1 Balanced AES / SPDIF input

5 BNC selectable Digital Inputs (SPDIF / DXD / DSD64 & DSD128. Note: - DSD and DXD require 2 inputs)

1 BNC Output (SPDIF / CLOCK / AES Black) Selectable 500mV / 5V output

4 Toslink Optical Inputs (SPDIF / DXD / DSD64 & DSD128. DSD and DXD require 2 inputs)

2 Toslink Selectable Optical Outputs (SPDIF / CLOCK / AES Black)

USB Audio streaming (Bit accurate to 48 KHz & 24 Bits)

3.5mm Optical / Electrical remote input (with 12Vdc Ext power)
3.5mm Optical Remote output

Class A Single Ended and Balanced audio outputs.
Class A Headphone output

Relay switched attenuator / Balance control, with 0dB Direct bypass (unit can be used as Digital Pre Amplifier – no analogue inputs)

Balanced 64 Discrete DAC's per channel

DSD 64 & 128 Direct mode / DSD upsampled mode (When the DAC's attenuator is used then only DSD upsampled mode is available in DSD Mode).

Ultra low phase noise Digital controlled “Rubber band†VCXO clock recovery

Directly supported native sampling rates (No Asynchronies sample rate conversion) 32KHz, 44.1KHz, 48KHz, 88.2KHz, 96KHz, 176.4KHz, 192KHz, 352.8KHz(DXD), 384KHz (DXD), DSD 64 & DSD128

Full VFD graphics display

Remote control

Fully user upgradeable Digital architecture

Internal expansion slots for future hardware upgrades

The new Dacapo will be available in two “Cosmetic versions†one a standard 19†1U rack mount unit (around GBP500) and a “Milled Heavy Aluminum†Premium version (about GBP850) – both have identical internal electronics and functions. The aim with the standard 19†version is to offer the cheapest possible unit while preserving the audio quality – but also offering a Premium cosmetic design.

19†Rack Version can be upgraded to the Premium version at any time.

To meet this very aggressive point, The units will be Internet sales – with 30days home trial.

 

the bel canto dac3 is excellent, and IMHO a more balanced performer than the dac64, which i find a bit forward and aggressive in its presentation. It's also very expensive, over here at least, not sure how it stacks up on your side of the pond.

The dac2 is a lot cheaper, and also superb, but has a very smooth, liquid and slightly warm sound. I love it, but it may not be your cup of tea if you have enjoyed the chord for this long

 

Thanks for the suggestions!

Word does seem to be that the Lavry is a nicer listen.

Looks like the Monarchy & the Bel Canto (DAc3 at least) have made former Chord owners happier... nice, since a used BC (DAC2) is pretty affordable over here- cheaper than the (new) Lavry, actually. And, in the US, the new DAC3 is no more than the Chord was here before the dollar crashed.

Any other comments/suggestions from folks familiar with the Chord? Particularly, I'm also interested in what price point/which units start to truly better it... not a by just a tad, but by an amount everyone can easily agree on.

Much appreciated!

 

any links where it can be ordered?

also what D/A chip(s) it uses?

 

Hey, anubisgrau, sq225917-

Please don't hijack the thread- start a new one about this Westlake DAC, or go offline with the discussion.

Thanks!

PS: sq225917: I do appreciate your comments re: the Chord; do you have suggestions (beyond the John Westlake) as to what DACs improve substantially on it?

 

That's the limit of my experience. to be honest to get anywhere beyond this you really are looking pretty much solely at DACS that don't use off the shelf chips. So MBS, Wadia, Stahl, DCS, Meitner, serious money stuff.

 

IME, DACS such as those mentioned above ( plus lavry 924 ) that use some form of proprietary DSP, can offer a significant improvement in sound quality ,but as in everything else the law of diminishing returns kicks in pretty hard.