densen

hi everyone,

does anyone have any experience with the densen beat 100 here?
i am thinking of upgrading my current amplifier soon (rotel ra-971 mk2) and have shortlisted the densen so far.

I have read a lot of reviews stating that the densen does not pair well with speakers with metal dome tweeters, do you think this is true? i am using b&w 602's so do you think this would be too bright a combination?

I know there is no substitute for a home demo, but its gonna be a few months before a have the money to buy it anyway and i was wondering if it is even worth shortlisting with my speakers.

Another amp i am looking at is a naim nait 5, but the fact that ill also need new interconnects and speaker cable bumps up the price a bit so it doesnt seem quite as much value for money.

Any other amps you would recommend around that price point and cheaper?

FYI i have a rotel rcd 961 cd player.

thanks

Chris

 

Hi Chris,

We use a Beat 100 Mk 5 ?(2000 model I believe), in one of our test systems, cracking amps, great power and current reserves, detailed fast & pacy, plus the musical flow thang as well, good build quality too, but do look for vol pot probs, they are known for the odd one of 2 slipping throught he net, we paid £275 for it, serious bargin by asny standards. Wm

 

I upgraded from a Rotel RA 971 Mk2 to a Densen B100 in 2000 and it was a fantastic upgrade.

Th Rotel was supposed to measure up to 100 wpc according to HFC so I thought that the mere 60 watts of the B100 would have less headroom...

Wrong!

In comparison to the Rotel it sounds much much cleaner, more detailed, more tuneful, punchier, and the bass goes deeper.

I continued with Densen to this day upgrading to the B200/B300XS I now have.

As for metal dome tweeters it is more of an issue with interconnects - the Densen is very fussy; give it the wrong i/cs and the treble sounds harsh. This would obviously be exacerbated by metal tweeters.

 

The Beat 100 was based on the now obsolete DM10 which I've got. The DM10 is a beefier amp which is what I needed. Some say the DM10 is a little pr&t deficient but I can't say I agree. My Dynavectors are being serviced so the DM10 has been pressed into proper service and its a cracker. It was a bargain new but for about 600 quid s/h is real vfm. Densen will fix/service old gear for nowt all you need do is pay shipping costs.

 

steven,

i use transparent audio interconnects, any idea how these sound with densen? What interconnects would you reccomend?

Thanks

Chris

 

I have never heard Transparent Audio i/cs so I can't comment.

Generally speking more epensive i/cs with better quality terminations and shielding seem to do te trick. The key is to listen. If it sounds off, don't blame the tweeters. The frequency extremes should be well extended and clean without sounding gritty in the bass or metallic at the top end.

The following do work quite well:

Chord Anthem £300 - slightly on the warm side but organic sounding and well extended at the frequency extremes. Good rhythmic bass, and timing.

Nordost Red Dawn £330 - the one recommended by Densen. Very detailed interconnect, clean but slightly lean in balance.

Omiga Audio Liberator - hand made by Wadia Miester himself POA but around the price or less than the others above - the best of the lot, imho - has the detail of the Nordost with the timing of the Anthem, does leading edge involvement and even better controlled bass to boot.

Don't get the one that is rolled of in the treble (depends on termination I believe, but ask WM) as this masks a problem when you can fix it.

 

Steven
well transparent audio interconnects have a network in them which cuts off inaudable frequncies (to cut down on interference) or so i understand. you say the frequency extremes should be well extended, so my current i/c are prob the exact oppostite of what i would need, or have i misunderstood what you meant?

Are there any cheaper interconnects you could reccomend? i dont know if i could mentally cope with spending £300 on an interconnect taking the signal from a £400 cd player. I know ill need new interconnects in the future, but i would rather use that £300 towards a new cd player first.

Thanks for the info though, youve put my mind at ease with them metal tweeters now.

Chris

 

Chris, get some Mogami mic cable - under 2 quid a metre - and solder some bullet plugs onto it.

 

I use a DM10 and have had a Beat round quite often. I agree with Wadiamaster about the Beat it, really is a cracker. The DM10 is much more of a sod to get just right. It also needs about 3 days to work properly if it is unplugged. The Beat is about 12 hours.

 

Watcha Paul,

Apart from piles of Mana, obviously, how does one get a DM10 'just right'?

 

Possibly. Maybe not. Densen amps are as cheap a chips for what they do, but you have to factor in the whole cost of getting them to work right including all their ancilliaries. Even then they are still cheap compared to...

As for using a 400 GBP CD player, unless it's an exceptionaly good one the Densen will trash it for what it is (relatively) worth.

 

An interesting thread.

May I ask Densen users for views on how the Densen (probably 200 + 300X and Densen CDP) compares in music presentation to Naim CD5 or CDX2 + 202/200.
I love the Naim presentation but I'm having a hard time justifying spending that kind of money for a CD only system.
If I can get 90% Naim for 50% cost I think I could live with that.

Cheers

 

Well Densen do 2 CDP the B400 and the B400X, at I think £1400 and £2800.

When I bought a B400 about 4 years ago, it was a different sound from the competition at the time. One of my comparisons was vs the Naim CD3, which I wasn't fussed with, and was a different presentation.
A whole Densen setup would however make more sense than just the CDP, since you can then justify the rip-off £250 remote!!

Nowadays there are plenty of alternative CDP to the B400 with "airy/multi-layered/less-CD like" sound at £1k - £2k including lots of smaller makers.
As for the B400X, I compared it to my B400 and felt it sounded more like other makes I had rejected when I had chosen the B400 ie "more forward/less layered". Maybe this is nearer the Naim sound? Ask someone else..

I do know If I was shelling out £3k, I would want some value features, maybe digital inputs for future expansion. I couldn't put up with rattly buttons, and having to press > 12 times to access track 12 etc.

I think I'd want a fun weekend in NY with a Wadia in the hand luggage coming back.

 

Interesting Graham, I ditched a CDS2 happily in favour of a 400XS - I thought I was doing this for financial reasons but preferred it anyway. The 400 I thought a bit dull, lacking the boogie factor of Naims (although I thought the CD5 lacked the fun of my old CD3). I've not heard the 400 Plus but apparently it gets you a long way down the road to an XS (a road you don't seem too keen on).

I've not done the extensive research into ICs that Steven has for Densen - seem happy with the bullet plugged Mogami to my ears - but the Eupen mains lead is a very tidy improvement both for the Densen and anything near it - I think Densen pollute the mains more than most - a big Ben Duncan helped alot too.

 

I assume you mean the CD player, not the amps? I have found most vinyl systems can be improved quite a bit by turning off and unplugging the CD player or DAC from the mains, same goes for computers too.

Tony.

 

Hi Chris,

I've had my Beat B-100 for about three and a half years now (replaced a rather ancient Arcam Delta 60) and haven't looked back I love it. Using it with a pair of Kef Q55.2s

At the time I auditioned it against a Roksan Kandy, something from Micromega (can't remember what it was, but it was about the £700 mark) and something from Rotel, again at around that price point. Frankly it wiped the floor with em. The internal phono stage is fine, but added an extra £150. If I were to do it again, I'd probably have gone for an external phono stage

No experience with the Beat and metal domed tweeters though. I tried it with the Kef Q55.2s (that I eventually bought with it), some Sonus Faber Concertinos and some Castle Severns. It coped fine with all of them - the Sonus Fabers sounded particularly lovely with Jazz and acoustic stuff but they weren't gonna rock for nobody (they were the dealers fave - but he was a jazzhead). The Castles were beautifully made, and were sweet sounding - they just sounded a bit slow. The Kefs were the best all rounders (and the cheapest too).

 

Yes Tony, the CDP - its a bloody pig in that regard. Trouble is, if you turn it off it takes at least 24hrs to warm up again.

 

I trie the B400 back in 2000 for the whole summer. I didn't like it as I prefer the forward involving sound/music you get with Naim CD players. Then there was the issue of the rattly buttons and flimsy drawer mechanism (imho)

Th B400 is no longer available and has been replaced by the B400 Plus.

If the top-line B400XS (I haven't heard it yet hands-on) is as rhythmic and involving as the equivalent Naim player (CDX/CDX2) then I'd go for it on sonics.

Otherwise mixing Naim CD players with Densen amplification does work rather well. After all, Densen designed the B100, B200 and B300 before they developed their first CD player, and in those days they recommended Naim CD players.

A CDX2/B200/B300XS should see off a CDX2/202/200 combination if set up correctly (imho.)

 

It may just be a system thing with the Dynavector amps but the 400XS is/was miles better than a CDX, kilometres better than a CDX/CDPS and a few yards better than a CDS2 using my room/ears/equipment etc etc. A CDS3 may redress the balance but I don't intend to find out.

 

Chris,

I'm using Transparent ICs with my Beat/Rotel RCD991. No problems to report. Have also used Reson DNM and Kimber speaker cables, again with no problems to report