Digital cable to-ings and fro-ings

It's infuriating when you think you have everything nicely sorted and then you go and do something that makes you question whether you really have made the right choices

Until today I was quite happy with my digital front end:

Modded Teac T1 transport -> Monarchy Audio DIP 48/96 upsampler -> Chord DAC64.

Now, I haven't gone totally mad, I'm still very happy with the Teac and the DAC64. It's the cables and the upsampler I'm questioning. Linking the transport to the upsampler is Apogee Wyde-Eye RCA digital IC with Bullet plugs and linking the upsampler to the DAC is LAT DI-20MkII AES/EBU XLR digital IC.

Now, the Apogee Wyde-Eye RCA cable has been very impressive and has beaten pretty much any other RCA digital cable I've tried it against upto £300 - pretty good considering it only costs £50. So, I thought, why not substitute my LAT balanced cable between upsampler and DAC for an Apogee Wyde-Eye balanced cable? It should be better and I'd be happier using the same cable for both digital links. So the other day I bought one (again, only about £50) and today I've been trying it out.

Uggghhh!! What a horrible mess It was so bright and harsh in the treble it was barely listenable to Voices suddenly were full of sibilance and digital "hash". I could scarcely believe it since this is exactly the opposite of what the Apogee RCA cable did (in comparison to other cables it removed all the treble harshness). I did several more tests back and forth with various CDs and my ears were not decieving me. The Apogee XLR cable was horrid. Maybe the cable needs burning in but I can't see burning in (of a cable) making such a quantum leap in peformance. Also, I unscrewed the Neutrik XLR plugs to have a look and it appears that the Apogee balanced cable is of a totally different construction to the RCA one so it looks like they're not really the same cable after all.

Now, since the LAT balanced cable is, as it turns out, really rather good perhaps I should go the other way and switch my RCA Apogee cable for a LAT DI-20 RCA cable! Another option would be to use a second Apogee RCA cable between upsampler and DAC allthough I lent my other one to a friend so I can't test that out just now.

Then I thought what the hell, why not ditch the upsampler entirely and use just the Apogee RCA between transport and DAC? Well, it does sound rather good. TBH I've never been 100% convinced of the sonic value of the Monarchy upsampler. If I can notice a difference it's that it makes the top end slightly smoother but seemingly at the expense of a little life and dynamics. I've also never been entirely happy with non-integer upsampling. After all, it's really just a digital filter and possibly one that isn't allowing the DAC64 to do it's magic as well as it might. I got it originally because WM was selling it for an excellent price and because I was irrationally obsessed with feeding the DAC64 a balanced digital signal and my T1 doesn't have an XLR digi out. It alsp obviously means using two digi ICs instead of one with all the variaions that can entail. It's only "advantage" is that it reduces the DAC64's 4 second buffer delay to less than 2 seconds (96kHz has more than twice as much data as 44.1kHz in the same time period).

I'm going to try a few more things but I think I'll soon be selling a couple of digital XLR cables and an upsampler

As I once read on AudioAsylum, once you go the 2 (or 3) box digital source route then you have to make sure you don't go crazy with digital ICs because that way lies madness . I'm starting to learn that :cry:

Michael.

 

But Mike, surely you realise this is not possible, YOU are deluding yourself mate really, It's all in your self belief for wanting to believe, trust me it was in HFC et al

Let us contemplate for a moment,

"Don't even mention the fools who think there is a difference to be heard between digital interconnects. LOL."

and let us not forget....

"Face it, if you've spent serious cash on cables, you've been deluding yourself. And the point about source/amp equipment sounding the same? Thats quite true, but mark my words, there will be differences, mainly down to the different designs used."

Let us take heed of the of these commandments, and banish these proposterious notions from our 'insecure minds"
I hope Mike, for your sake you drop these lludicious thoughts that your dac 64 can sound any different with Apogee xlr's to bell wire rca's mate, you have my sympathy mate Wm

 

I have a feeling that it may be connected [sic] with "cable break in". Even cables that have been burnt in IMO will sound odd/inconsistant for a few hours before they settle down. If the balanced cable is virgin and un burnt in, then the sounds your hearing are consistant with that process, in that I've heard similar with new digital cable, I've put together.

That said, I work on the KISS principle [keep it simple stupid]in that more is not nessesarily better. So I'm not suprised that the removal of the upsampler actually improves things.

 

Boy am I glad I have now got a 1 box player

 

Well, since I'm away in London and NY for the next two weeks (work, not pleasure) I'm going to leave the Apogee XLR cable in place between the upsampler and DAC. The upsampler and DAC are always on so two weeks constant use should burn it in.

I'll make any decisions when I get back.

Michael.

 

A one box player is just as susceptable to these problem.....its just your unable to do anything about them [you can change the pcb tracks easily].

Similarly the CDP connection to amp will suffer from the same effects, so you aren't as removed as you might think!

 

Mike,

So you decided not to let them burn in then

 

Nope . I played around testing with/without upsampler again this morning and the difference is really so subtle (if any) that I decided to ditch the upsampler alltogether and avoid the pain of having to pick a 2nd digital cable.

As a result, upsampler, LAT DI-20mkII XLR digital IC, Apogee Wyde-Eye XLR digital IC and the Eupen that was feeding the upsampler are all up for sale. See the Buy & Sell forum.

Michael.

 

Maybe that cable is defective, I have both Apogees, and they didnt change much with burn-in...

Michael, save the Eupen for me, I would like to try it with my subs... :MILD:

 

Sorry António - the Eupen is already sold

I'm lending the Apogee XLR to Ricardo (JoeKool on CdA) to see what he thinks...

Michael.