Digital source upgrade....

I fear I may be boring you guys with my digital source upgrade decisions (or more likely, indecisions ) for a little while. This could turn out to be worthy of Nuno :nuno: (see Naim forum for explanation).

OK, currently with 13yr old Marantz CD50SE as transport, modded (by me) to have the Trichord digital output board, with an AES/EBU balanced digital out, running into Tag McLaren DAC20 via a LAT DI-20MkII balanced digital cable.

It's fair to say that the DAC20 was the single biggest improvement I've ever noticed in my system - yes, even bigger than when I upgraded my £150 Tannoy mx2 speakers to £1200 Dynaudio Contour 1.3MkIIs It basically transformed my system from mid-fi OKness that I tolerated for a long time to something I really enjoyed listening to. Even my wife was like: "I don't know what it does, but ever since you got that black box with the blue LED on it, this hifi sounds amazing!" :MILD:

So, I'm reasonably happy but know I can do better. I recently heard a Chord DAC64 in my system and it blew me away. I absolutely loved it. So musical and alive, it just put me right there with the band/orchestra - one of the best sounds I've ever heard in any system

So, DAC64 is top of the shortlist right now (and the only option I've actually listened to). However, I think that my transport could do with an upgrade. With the Trichord DOB in place it does a pretty good job but I feel that after 13yrs the laser may be on its way out and it's starting to skip more often. Not annoyingly often yet, but I think it's a downhill spiral. OTOH, I'd be reluctant to spend £500-1000 on a decent transport if it's not going to make a huge sonic improvement over my existing one (with the DAC64) - which I personally don't believe it will. Sure, transports sound different but not that different.

Transport options I'm currently thinking about are:
- s/h Teac VRDS CDP or transport - reasonably cheap but possibly running into longevity issues with some of the older ones. Would need clock upgrade or possibly Trichord DOB again to get the best from it.
- Tag CDT20R transport. One of the few relatively recent transports that's available in reasonably large numbers, but quite pricey (c.£900).
- AudioNote CDTZero transport. Nice small box, probably as good as any other, reasonably priced, can be clocked/DOB'd to great effect (apparently).

So, if we're talking s/h DAC64 at, say, £1400 + a transport for, say, £900 (including mods) then that's £2300 . Maybe I'd be better off with an integrated player at around the £2K mark or slightly over?

Any suggestions you guys have of integrated CDPs that come close to the amazing "alive" sound of the DAC64 at around the £2K level (s/h an option, provided relatively easy to find in Europe)? OTOH any other transport + DAC combos that you think are worth a listen?

Only integrated currently on my list, as a recommendation from titian is the Metronome Technologie CD2V Tube CDP or possibly (it's somewhat over my budget) their T1-i Sig. player. There's a shop in Lisbon that stocks them so it would be easy for me to dem. WM has had a few suggestions in the past but most of them (eg Advantage S1) are as rare as hens teeth and I'm unlikely to be able to dem them, especially not at home (in Portugal) which makes them something of a non-starter. Would have to be something that's reasonably easy to find and dem in the UK or Portugal, preferrably against the DAC64.

Cheers,
Michael.

 

michael,
there are the usual suspects for integrated players..
art audio v2
naim cdx2 - now with added phono sockets
advantage s1
2nd hand wadia 301.
2nd hand wadia 860 - if you're really lucky
etc.
there is a new resolution audio for about 2.5k which hi-fi+ quite liked (i think, i just skimmed the review at the weekend)

i reckon though that you'll end up with a vrds and a chord 64. other transports you might want to consider... a top pioneer stable platter if it's good enough for wadia then....
one of the current crop of universal disk players onkyo, dennon, pioneer etc.

cheers

julian

 

Meridian 588 at 2.1K is an excellent player (I have one myself). Or a s/h 508.

Lee's CAL Sigma tube dac can be had for around £300 - £400 apparently (if you can find one). I thought it beat the DAC64 in sheer musical terms. That leaves you with a hefty amount of spare change to buy a fancy transport or more CDs.

-- Ian

 

I was going to recomend Meridian, but Sideshow did it before me. They really sound great, warm and with a lot of detail. The old Meridians had bullet proof transports. So perhaps a second hand one will be a possibility.

 

can,t you just do it in stages michael?
dac 64 first , then look at auditioning a transport later .
the other thing is can you re-use the trichord mods out of the marantz ?

 

Just buy it you know you want to, I'll pass however, although put it with nice valves and the problems solved
what about an MSB gold dac with built in preamp
Wadia 301 nah far too soft and flabby
You guys suss it, I have

 

The CAL Audio tube DAC seems very interesting, the problem though is finding one. Looks like the company doesn't even exist anymore and there's sparse mention of them anywhere on the net

Will have to listen to a Meridian 580 and/or 588 in my system. I've heard a 507 and a 508.24 in other peoples systems and the impression I got was they were a little too smooth and refined for my taste but I will try to compare one against a DAC64...

Naim CDX2 is also something I could dem in Portugal - but doesn't it require one those CDX2 psus aswell?

The Audionet ART V2 I will also have to check out. Will see if there's a place in Portugal that stocks them, otherwise anyone know a dealer in the London area where I can have a listen to one? Same goes for Advantage S1.

2nd hand Wad 301 would be nice, again, will have to see if I can dem, prefereably against DAC64.

kermit, you're probably right. What will probably happen is I'll get a DAC64 and then think about a transport later. The Trichord bits could be re-used - even if the clock freqs. were different it's just a case of swapping out the clock 'can' on the board.

Other options that have sprung to mind since posting are:
- Perp Tech. P1A + P3A: would love to listen to this combo. Seems like a bargain if Stereophile et. al. are to be believed.
- MSB Dacs, also relative bargains but as with the PT stuff, difficult to audition AFAIK.
- Using a universal player as a transport. This is very appealing

If I went for the DAC64 and then later got something like a Teac DV-50 universal player it would seem to be the best of everything. Amazing CD performance (with DAC64), sh1t hot DVD player and then a DVD-A/SACD player to boot....

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

Michael.

 

So how much do you want for your DAC20 Michael? Why waste time I say

 

Strikes me that the suggestion of a DAC64 first, then worry about the transport would be a good idea.
Imagine if you bought a really expensive transport first, then added the 64, only to find that you couldn't tell the difference between a high quality transport and a cheapy DVD player on the front.

 

Humm, this is not the case with the Dac 64, transports big effect , but those that just have dvd transport, it'll still sound good, but just do a back to back with a half about one I think Mike already has with the tosh

 

Thats what Im going to do!



just going to try and sell my micromega DAC first is all.

Cheers
Chris

 

Michael,

Interesting thread for me cos I'm in a similar position with my Micromega Drive/ Parasound Dac. The Dac is pretty good but isn't I dont think doing the rest of my system justice. The Drive is pretty old and I'm very tempted to go to a one box. My very short list so far comprises the Metronome err.. and thats it!

Saturdays DAC-off at Bottlenecks and HenryT's analysis of it was for my money on the button. From what I heard with my Audions, the DAC 64 would probably be a good match - I already have the "roundness" of the CAL and could do with the extra dynamic of the 64. But that still leaves me with the Micromega.

Anyway FWIW theres a CAL DAC here

 

Careful Dev! The DAC20 has a very different presentation to your Alpha 9. When we added the DAC20 to my Alpha 9 at a bake-off earlier this year, most of those present preferred the Alpha 9 on its own.

Chris

 

I have to agree with Technobear.

I preferred the DAC 20, but it definately wasn't the same as the Alpha 9.

Cheers

 

Hmm - just $350 Shame the guy will only ship to the US. Maybe a few extra greenbacks could change his mind?

For $350 it's worth a punt just to see what all the fuss is about, bottleneck will always buy it off you later if you don't like it

Michael.

 

I did try the DAC64 I borrowed with my cheap Tosh 220 DVD player and it was noticeably worse but then I was also using the utterly shite QED Qunex P75 RCA cable to connect the two (my main cable is XLR so couldn't use that and your Enterprise cable I had wasn't long enough) so it wasn't a truly fair test.

Michael.

 

don't hold your breath Dev - this is going to be a long an protracted business I feel Will let you know though if/when the DAC20 comes up for sale...

I may even keep it to hook up to the PC in my office for a second system. I already have a spare Arcam Alpha 6+ amp lying around and will shortly have a couple of Tannoy mx2 speakers to go with it once I've got some Dynaudio 42's for surround duties

That setup will surely beat the cr@p Dell standard issue Altec Lansing satellite + sub setup which I currently have to tolerate in my office - in fact it's so bad I usually just put a CD on in the living room and let the sound come through the door

Michael.

 

Thanks Chris/Tim,

I'm very pleased to hear this.

I was actually thinking of using a DAC with a Pioneer 626D DVD Video player, that way I can chuck out my spare HiFi which is not doing any justice to Mission speakers I bought from Tim. How much are these DACs worth? I understand TAG McLaren were selling refurbished units for a very reasonable price. Are they still available from them? I emailed them about 2 weeks ago but never received a reply. Still, I'm not in any rush, there's bound to be one (or MF DAC?) on eBay sooner or later.

 

If anyone wants the CAL DAC on Audiogon its all theirs . Although he says he'll only ship to USA, generally if you ask they'll ship internationally.

 

According to the "refurbished equipment" link on their site, they still have the DAC20 listed so it might still be available from them. They say they're "refurbished" but they are brand new. Excess stock probably. They were selling them for £450 when I got mine - I think s/h ones elsewhere are going for around £350-400. RRP was £1250

Michael.