Dipoles and Apartments

I've just moved to a new top storey flat with old wooden floor and serious sound leakage. I reckon I can cope - more headphone listening and no more JBL's. The room itself is excellent acoustically being 22' x 14' x 8' and of course the leaky walls mean less offensive standing waves.

Still, I have always been told that dipoles allow for perceived louder levels with less intrusion caused to the neighbours. Is this the case? Certainly my old Logans did the trick of sounding the same level whether I had my ear to the panel or was 8 feet away.

Given that the room layout allows for 5' behind the speakers, I am seriously considering going back to panels when my new amp arrives next week. Any thoughts?

 

When can we all come round a get finger marks all over your MacIntosh then?

-- Ian

 

Quad electrostatics have the knack of sounding good at low volume.... if you've got the space they could be a good solution.

 

I agree Alan,

On a scale of annoying people all over a building, the Linn Isobarik would be at the most intrusive level of the scale, with the Quads being the least.

Actually I used to find the Briks sounded good in my bedroom above the listening room.

 

Congratulations on your new apartment. Is it in the same area?

My understanding is that dipoles excite less of the fundamental room resonances but I'd have to check which ones (presumably front to back).

Why do the JBL subs have to go? You know how attached I was to them.

 

Thanks guys,

finally I can see the floor

Steve, the JBL's have to go simply because in this old building, you are going to hear the bass in Windsor! I'm still in the same area, Taplow to be precise. Lee kindly dropped round the little Proac sub and had a nose, even that will upset the neighbours. Problem is compounded by traffic noise - what on earth posessed me to buy this place!

I've taken a bit of care with the floor, laid a couple of layers of soundproofing mat, a thick underlay, then some sizal. So it should only be the bass that is a real issue. Still gone are the days of hifi pounding, for the forseeable future anyway.

I'm going to keep an eye out for a pair of Quads, the 988 should be acceptable from a domestic point of view, the vintage finish will probably fit in quite well.

Ian, the Mac will be another week or so away, but once it is in situ, you are more than welcome to drop in provided you come equipped with a suitably ecclectic selection of music

 

This problem is something that I think the Hifi Industry and especially the Hifi press just ignores. Even hifi geeks have to live in the real world with everyone else.

Actually there are probably not that many people who live in completely detached large houses who can make as much noise as they want without worrying about the neighbours. And most reasonable people want to have good relations with their neighbours.

Additionally some of us just don't like our music too loud. Every time I've been at a hifi demo in a shop or elsewhere I've had to ask them to turn it down.

When I hear people talking about replaying Mahler or Shostakovich or Motorhead or whatever at 'realistic' volumes I get scared... do they live in a concert hall? I have never ever heard any hifi sound remotely pleasant or musical at high volume.

 

Interesting Alan.

Im the opposite!

I picked my house (amongst other reasons) because the lounge was at the opposite side of the house to the neighbours (its a semi).

I crank it up pretty loud - I think it sounds better when I can feel the bass aswell as hear it - I want to hear a 'thump'.

Do you have a history of monitoring proffessionally? Just wondered if this was where attention to the level came from... or just a personal preference..

 

Alan,

May I suggest a trip to Graham N's for an apprasial of realistic Mahlar
Some music needs to recieve the 'My amp starts at 12 ' treatment, while others are just above the merest whipser.
Moods too have a serious effect on volume level too I feel Wm

 

This could be my latest "let's make a complete fool of myself" post because I really know f-all about headphones but what the heck...

My question is can headphones do bass? Isn't there some sort of vibrating, touchy-feely bass headphone thing that gives a good headphone type bass? I really don't know.

Anyway, I'm thinking open-type headphone subs for apartment dwellers.

You know me. Innovation is my middle name - even if you have to put several of these rags up the old flagpole before you get one that catches the wind.

 

Interesting Steve,

Headphones certainly do bass, but of course you miss the visceral impact. The Stax I sold had superb bass - one of the reasons for the Mac was that it sensibly has a headphone socket, but I may push the boat out for some Stax' again.

Now I'm thinking of hifi cubicles Should be easy to soundproof the area around a chair, OK not deep bass but levels could be lower. Just wall mount some of those Bandors, install a Lava lamp and smoke extractor, and go in for the ride of your life

 

headphones and subwoofers.... you could try sitting on the sub!

I have never been involved in monitoring, so the preference for lower volume than most people is just my foible. My previous house was fully detached with a good deal of space between me and the neighbours so I was never worried about causing them a problem, but even so I still did not go for loud.

18 months ago we moved to a terraced house but with a dedicated listening room, so changed speakers to electrostatics which I'm very happy with.

I just find that every amp & speaker I've heard sounds like its shouting when played loud. Could be unsympathetic room, but then I've always had carpets, curtains and plenty of soft furnishings in my rooms.

 

Even though I am in the ground floor, I isolated the ceiling as well as I could, still no loud music after 10:00, thats the law...

Anyway, I found and ordered Soundcare SuperSpikes to use under my speakers and subwoofers to damp acoustic feedback as much as 11db at 50hz...

Soundcare SuperSpikes

 

mike,
congratulations on getting the new place.
as for your problem, well, there is one universal solution to any audio problem you may have, you're just too much of a weenie boy to try it
cheers


julian

 

Come on Jules! Spill the beans - regail us with your tales.

 

mike,
just place your unfeasably large bass enclosures on brand x and it will create an aura of silence around them. brand x of course knows where you are sitting and so opens a quantum tunnel 'wormhole' in that direction to allow sound out in only that direction thus preventing your neigbours internal organs from disintegrating. of course the effect can be exponentially increased by buying more brand x.
if you want to know more then you'll have to learn the iron hardman handshake and roll your trouser leg up. thus revoking your status as a weenie boy.
cheers



julian.

 

Aha Julian!

Phase seven Mana under the JBL's! I see where you are coming from now but am unsure as to howmuch this would transmit the energy to the floor below - it seems there is little data on exactly what Mana does.

Trust me here, even the tiny Proac 1scs transmit bass through the floor. The one saving grace appears to be that the room's signature is non existant, no evidence of bad room modes. Now if I could get Bub to come down to civilisation with seven levels of angle iron I might find the answer. Sadly with that unlikely, the JBLs' will be mothballed for future moves, or sold on ebay for a bloody song.

John's Apogees would have been interesting if I had not just outed the Sims for an amp that would run a mile at the sight of them So the Quads will be getting a demo, as will a number of headphone options to replace my Sennheiser HD600's. Cue Mr. Birkett

 

Sorry to hear this; it sounds exactly like my situation, although thankfully (I guess) I wasn't used to the huge bass of your JBLs so my loss isn't so bad I guess. Sound leakage throgh the floor is my big problem, but as I'm renting the floor treatment you've done is out, at least in the short run. I'd be interested in how effective you think that is though?

Martin

 

These claim to have a subwoofer in them:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3702&item=5700015398&rd=1

although what that means I'm not too sure. I mean, plenty of headphones go lower than subs anyway...

 

Merlin, I think it would be worthwhile giving some Mana a go under your speakers. If you buy new, and you don't like, you can return within 14 days.

You know the speakers I'm using - there's hardly any bass in the (suspended wooden) floor @ phase 7.